Talk:O Holy Night

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See also Talk:O Holy Night (Mariah Carey single).

Do we really need the mention of the tree in Atlanta? You've got to remember that, sometimes, there are people in the world using Wikipedia that don't care about every unimportant aspect of local customs in America. (Forgive me if the event is important to some, but think in terms of the larger scheme of things - it has little to do with the song.)

Contents

[edit] Lyrics

Can the lyrics legally be listed on Wikipedia? I am concerned that it maybe considered a copyright violation under Wikipedia's rules. Misterrick 00:27, 01 August 2005 (UTC).

The lyrics are a hundred and fifty years old. I think any copyright would have expired by now. – Hattrem 01:04, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

What about the Bing Crosby version? It's notably different from the original lyrics, plus it's probably one of the most popular recordings of the song. Shouldn't it be here, too? --Eisenmaus (talk) 19:29, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] translation, slavery

I see the article attributes the "slave is our brother" line to the translator being a Quaker. But the French lyrics are here, and though my French skills are poor, it seems to say something about slaves and brothers. AltaVista's Babelfish translates the beginning of that verse as "Did the Redeemer break any obstacle, the ground is free and the sky is open / It sees a brother or was not that a slave / the love links those which the iron connected," So I think the hints of abolitionism may go back to the French. Any French speakers here who can confirm? --Allen 01:54, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Allen, with my limited knowledge of French I concur with AltaVista translation. The text should be definitely put in the context of historical events in France and the world. Possibly slavery should be considered in the context of both colonialism and the industrial revolution. ResearchMind 120906

I've deleted the reference to abolitionism because it implied the translator added that sentiment. I've read the French version of this article and it gives no background on why Cappeau referred slaves. DBlomgren (talk) 16:56, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The High Note

This song's pretty well-known for having a high note that's hard to hit for some singers, shouldn't that be included?


As far as I recall it's a top B or B flat - a note any half decent soprano should be able to sing with ease: if they can't reach it they shouldn't being singing it, so I don't think it needs to be mentioned. 86.135.211.64 01:23, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Performers

The list is a little too crowded to provide benefit. A chronogical list with albums and years would be helpful. Tim Long 23:11, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. I actually added a few performers (and took a few away). I think that what the massive list provides is a visual indication of the popularity of this song and the fact that it is used by an amazingly diverse set of vocalists to show-off their vocal range and their particular styles. It is interesting to see that everyone from Bing Crosby to Avril Lavigne (whose version is painful IMO), Maria Callas to Kenny Rogers has covered it. Wonder if all those patriotic American country singers know they are singing a French song? Saudade7 21:21, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
Also, comparatively, this is a very short list. I invite anyone to go to iTunes and look under O Holy Night and Oh Holy Night. There are about 100 performers not on this list, and iTunes only has a small portion of total recordings available (no Maria Callas version for instance). Saudade7 21:23, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
A list like this is highly subjective and unencyclopedic. Only notable versions should be mentioned. I argue against the idea of it being a "visual indication of the popularity of the song" on the basis that it impractical for the list to be longer than a few dozen items, and a vast number of songs are popular enough for that. Christmas songs in particular are covered every year by the truckload and by a very wide variety of performers, so none of it is even a surprise. What is particularly notable about this song is not so much its popularity but its difficulty (no roving carolers dare try it), and that should be the focus of attention. Maybe to augment that, we could have a few quotes about how it is a particularly beautiful song or some performer's favorite. --Tysto (talk) 18:24, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
Ha! Well apparently someone (since I was last here) has formatted the whole thing and added even more people! There are many more singers listed now than when I was making my statement! I admit it is a bit absurd now, but oh well. The people have spoken. No one wants their favorite band or singer left out! I have divested all interest. Good luck! Saudade7 20:03, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
I've deleted the list entirely. Wikipedia is not a compendium of all recordings of popular songs. --Tysto (talk) 05:01, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lyrics

Recent edits changing the lyrics may merit closer adult attention. --Wetman 21:41, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

I notice there is no translation for the middle verse. The English verse in version 1 sort of follows it, but not really. Version 2 is off in the weeds somewhere....

De notre foi que la lumière ardente
Nous guide tous au berceau de l'Enfant,
Comme autrefois une étoile brillante
Y conduisit les chefs de l'Orient.
Le Roi des rois naît dans une humble crèche:
Puissants du jour, fiers de votre grandeur,
A votre orgueil, c'est de là que Dieu prêche.
Courbez vos fronts devant le Rédempteur.
Courbez vos fronts devant le Rédempteur.


Here's a first pass at a literal translation.

It is by our faith that the ardent light
guides us all to the cradle of the child
as in days past one bright star
led the kings of the Orient there.
The king of kings is born in a humble crib.
The mighty of the day, proud of your grandeur,
at your arrogance, it is from there that God proclaims
Bow your faces before the redeemer.
Bow your faces before the redeemer.

Dgatwood (talk) 08:13, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] C.Soon?

English version one is the commonly-used one and can be trivially sourced. The second version is unknown to me and I can't track it down. The 2007 version by "C. Soon" looks like pure Original Research. Robert A.West (Talk) 01:58, 23 December 2007 (UTC)


I took out the C. Soon version, as I too could not find it anywhere and the edit was to persons only edit to date on the Wiki.
Version 2 was added
18:02, 19 December 2005 User:Heptazane (Talk | contribs) (Added alternate version. Version 1 is the most common that I've seen, and V2 (which was originally here) seems like an older version?) (undo)
So version 2 was actually the first version that appeared on the Wikipedia. Since it is actually a French song I am sure that there are regional differences in word interpretation that probably exist in Hymnals etc. I wouldn't worry about the 2 versions too much. What about the last most recent version in Ilocano? That might be beeter served being moved to the Ilocano Wikipedia (if there is such a thing) and creating a sidebar link? Good Luck. Saudade7 19:40, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
I moved the Ilocano (Ilokano?) version to the Ilokano wiki, made a sidebar link, and explained in the edit summary. I don't know why I am even on this page (again!). I translated the French version (which someone else thankfully repaired! Once I am inside French I forget how English is supposed to sound!) Anyway, next time if you think something is funky you can just be proactive and do it yourself. You can never mess up too badly or destroy anything because there is always the history and a whole bunch of people to keep you (and me) honest! Good luck! Saudade7 19:56, 24 December 2007 (UTC)