Talk:Nubians

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[edit] Nubian languages

I added a link to Nubian languages. The reference re language & Nobiin should be clarified with reference to the latter (which is well-written). --A12n 16:02, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

  • Nubians are no more likely to be Coptics than they are to be Scientologists. Virtually all Coptics in Aswan are of pure Egyptian descent, with no admixture from Nubians, Arabs, French, etc.

[edit] Nubian Princess - use in North American Black Vernacular Language

I added the following to the article -

"North American blacks will sometimes refer to beautiful black women (usually dark-skinned) as Nubian (adjective) or a Nubian Princess (noun). These terms are used regardless of the woman's actual African origin. It is considered a compliment."

I came to the Nubian article in the first place because I was familiar with this usage and I wanted to know who the real Nubians were. I believe this addition is relevant to the article. I am white but I believe my description of the slang is accurate. If you feel it does not belong in the article please discuss it here. -Jonathan in California —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.127.73.172 (talk) 03:07, 18 April 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Religion?

Is the Nubian wedding in the picture a Christian wedding, a Muslim wedding, or something else? Michael Hardy 18:41, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Muslim, as the some of the women in the back are wearing the characteristic hijab. Also, I don't believe there are any Christian Nubian communities today. If I recall correctly, the Nubians had all become Muslim by the Ottoman period (16th century). — Zerida 19:02, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A little spare, eh?

I've been told by professors and some of my fellow students that these people invented civilization and the Greeks stole it. Also, that they built the pyramids and were amazing scientists and engineers and invented everything that modern Europeans now claim. It's even mentioned in a rap song. Why isn't this mentioned in the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.139.108.134 (talk) 13:07, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

You are free to add additional text. Make sure you are adding factual objective information to this article. If you have opinions or information that is in dispute, feel free to add that to the 'controvery' section of this article. If no such section exists, please create one.

The origins of the Nubians, Ethiopians, and Egyptions has always been debated. All opinions are welcomed - regardless of race, color, or creed. One must be careful in trying to attach modern labels (black, white, arab) onto ancient groups. Certainly the culture & dress of the Nubians is closer to that of other African groups that Arab groups - necklace, braided hair, female circumcision, and etc. However there was a later Arab influence from the north.

I believe the situation is best represented by the following anology. What if the popluation of the North America suddenly disappears overnight along with all texts - only photos and statues remained? How would a foreigner that never observed an 'American' described them based on the photos and statues? They would most likely describe Americans as having descended from a similar group in Europe and being white - being in America first. They would consider all the advances in American culture to be soley a European influence. There would be no references to African-Americans or Native Americans outside of a migration from South America or slavery.

So when you look at Nubia and Egypt, it is a similar situation. Certainly, the early civilizations were distinctly African and a darker people. But migration & wars changed that.

Leon Spencer, Animis Opibusque Parati 12:25, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lead sentence

The following discussion is taken from my talk page regarding the lead sentence --SnakeEyeJazz 16:19, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia. We invite everyone to contribute constructively to our encyclopedia. However, Wikipedia is not censored, not even to remove profanity or pornography. Please do not remove or censor information that is relevant to the article, as you did to Nubians. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. - Jeeny (talk) 15:58, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

The edit you refer to was my removal of the phrase "and are believed to be the first human race" from the the lead sentence of the article, which reads "The Nubians are an ethnic group in southern Egypt and northern Sudan and are believed to be the first human race." This statement was supported by an entry at touregypt.net which states "The Nubians are believed to be the first human race on earth, and most of their customs and traditions were adopted by the ancient Egyptians" whilst citing no sources or naming the author.
This has nothing to do with censorship, but has everything to do with improving the scholarship and quality of writing of the article. I will replicate my edit, this time leaving a note on the discussion page. --SnakeEyeJazz 16:16, 1 December 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Physical Continuity

"The Nubians today, as well as the Arabic-speaking groups of northern Sudan, all show a clear physical continuity with the ancient Nubians." What does that mean, what are the physical features of ancient Nubians? If anyone knows please answer! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.222.54.16 (talk) 14:46, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

On any reading, the sentence doesn't mean anything. The description of ancient Nubians in the article says they had dark skin and wore hooped earrings. Are we suggesting that present-day Nubians all wear hopped earrings? In any case, the ancinet Nubian description is unsourced and can't be relied upon until someone can verify it
The statement that modern Nubians look like ancinet Nubians is itself unsourced, and would be a challenge to verify as we have no clear physica description of ancient Nubians and no explanation of modern Nubian appearance either. It would probably be possible to get materials together describing the common physical attributes of modern Nubians, and this would be worth adding tot hea rticle. But the research is needed before the sweeping generalisation, which is what the sentence in the article is.
I've taken it out for now. Any other comments or opposing views and welcome. Euryalus (talk) 19:28, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Broad use of term to refer to all black people

My understanding is that, historically, the term "Nubian" has been used to describe all black Africans, in much the same way that "Turk" was used as a catch-all term for Muslims. However, there is no mention of this useage in the article. If I am not mistaken and the useage is/was common, then a mention of it should be added to the article. Also, it would be interesting to see if this is true only of English-speaking regions, or whether other parts of the world have referred to blacks using their word for Nubians. I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that in the Arab world all blacks are commonly referred to as Nubians, so if anyone could verify that it would be good.
Static Sleepstorm (talk) 09:21, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Complex discussion. You need to look further than what modern popular views might understand as Nubian, black, Egyptian, Kemetic, or African. Egyptian glyphs describe the known population of Africa, what area of Africa they knew, as consisting on three major groups - Lybians, Egyptians, and Nubians. Keep in mind these aren't racial groups. And this grouping is for that particular time and/or dynasty. As demographics change, wars, and foreign influences impact areas, people view themselves differently.
See wiki article Racial characteristics of ancient Egyptians. This includes a glyph depicting groups.
You know what I find interesting, you cannot have an 'Out of Africa' evolution theory while at the same time denying Africa influence throughout Africa and the Middle East. If anything, we need to be consistent.
That's just my point of view. -Spencer,Leon 17:54, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Endonym(s)

On most articles for ethnic groups, in brackets after the name is first stated the endonyms and other common exonyms are given. Does anyone know what Nubians are called in Arabic or in the Nubian languages? The Arabic-language wikipedia appears not to have a page on Nubians, so that doesn't help.
Static Sleepstorm (talk) 09:25, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I asked at the wordreference forums (http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=787781) and apparently "Nubian" in Arabic is نوبي (nuubi). I shall add this to the page.
Static Sleepstorm (talk) 23:37, 12 January 2008 (UTC)