Talk:Norman invasion of Ireland
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I thought the welsh flags next to the names of some of the commanders of the norman invasion of ireland should be changed to english ones, due to the fact that they are very misleading. I'm sure that strongbow, Raymond Carew, & Richard Fitz Godbert all thought of themselves as Normans, & therefore an english flag next to their names would be much more appropriate. However in the case of Rhys ap Gruffydd(a welsh prince) or Maurice Fitz Gerald & Robert Fitz Stephen(the sons of a welsh princess), the welsh flags remain valid. User:Fennessy
- Strongbow's wikipage refers to him as a Cambro-Norman Aatomic1 15:49, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
Cambro-Norman, sure, but not welsh by any stretch of the imagination, or by the 12th century definition. Using Strongbow as an example, he would have been considered a Norman(English) overlord in his role as Earl of Pembroke, not a native welshman. Also he certainly would have been representing Norman(again, read English) intrests in Ireland not Welsh ones. Not being contentious here just trying to keep the article as factually accurate as possible.User:Fennessy 04:13, 25 May 2007
- No probs Aatomic1 09:04, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Problems! First, where is your evidence that Norman=English? That is your assumption. While you are spot-on regarding the Normans being viewed as outsiders in Wales, your implication is that they were not so viewed in England. They were the infamous 'imperialist yoke' to the English at the time of the Norman invasion of Ireland. They spoke French, they used French law and the King of England was first and foremost the Duke of Normandy. England was a conquest, and the term 'Anglo-Norman' wasn't even used to describe them until the fourteenth century. Which makes all talk of an "Anglo-Norman" invasion of Ireland in 1169 even more ridiculous. 194.125.72.144 20:05, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Henry II, Leinster and the Hiberno-Normans
Both Waterford and Dublin were proclaimed Royal Cities
Proclaimed by whom? Was there a military conflict between Henry's forces and that of the previous invaders?
Henry was happily acknowledged by most of the Irish Kings, who saw in him a chance to curb the expansion of both Leinster and the Hiberno-Normans.
So the Hiberno-Normans, Leinster and Henry were three independent political forces? Each controlled a different territory? Why the kings thought Henry would curb the expansion?
However, with both Diarmuid and Strongbow dead, Henry back in England and Ruaidhrí unable to curb his nominal vassals...
Which vassals?
John de Courcy invaded and gained much of east Ulster in 1177, Raymond le Gros had already captured Limerick and much of north Munster, while the other Norman families such as Prendergast, fitz Stephen, fitz Gerald, fitz Henry and le Poer were actively carving out virtual kingdoms for themselves.
So these kingdoms weren't subject to the English crown?
Top.Squark (talk) 10:15, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Gallóglaigh
The importation of galloglas into Ireland was a major factor in containing the Cambro-Norman invasion of the 12th century...
However, according to the Gallowglass article
The first record of gallowglass service under the Irish was in 1259
so they only appeared in the 13th century. Top.Squark (talk) 10:17, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
