Talk:Nimrod (Bible)

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Contents

[edit] List of identifications

I thought it might be a good idea to start listing the different identifications which have been suggested for Nimrod and the reasons fore the identification. I just found out about yet another theory which IDs Nimrod as Lugalzaggisi and Asshur as Sargon.Zestauferov 14:48, 6 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Is it correct to call Nimrod "a king of Assyria"? After all, we have a pretty detailed knowledge of the history of Assyria from the Chronicles, and they mention no one at all like Nimrod. Shouldn't he be called a "legendary King of Assyria" or some such? To call him a king of Assyria assumes that the Bible is an accurate source for the history of 2nd millennium BC Mesopotamia, which seems highly debatable, and, at the very least, POV. john k 00:54, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Has anyone read David Rohl's Legend: the Genesis of Civilization and The Lost Testament? From what I picked up in this dubious apocalyptic essay, he seems to equate Nimrod with Enmerkar of Uruk; I presume this because some old legends identify Nimrod as the builder of the Tower of Babel, and the story of Enmerkar and the Lord of Aratta has a couple of similarities to the Babel myth: a formerly unified language divided by divine intervention and the building of a great shrine. (The latter is not the cause of the former in the Sumerian version, though.) He also seems to identify Enmerkar/Nimrod as the origin of many ancient Near Eastern deities; this type of identification is not novel, but I suspect that the extent to which he takes it is. A summary of his theory, with proper context, would be beneficial: a long list of interpretationes attributed to "historians" in general—when in fact most of them come from one author of doubtful credibility—creates something of a misleading picture. —E. Underwood

Substantiating the Nimrod-Babel connection is a reference in Ether 2:1 in the Book of Mormon which states that when the Brother of Jared and company left the tower, they went to the valley of Nimrod which was northward and named after "the mighty hunter". Apparently somebody famous with that name was alive at the time. Possibly could have been known for his hunting prowess and his architectural skills.

[edit] NPOV dispute

(I've copied the following here from Talk:NPOV dispute. —E. Underwood 17:20, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC))

The article on Nimrod needs editing to conform to NPOV. A good portion of it is devoted to and linked to a book called 'The Two Babylons' which is a well known book among hard-line anti-Catholic Protestants. The book's thesis is basically that Catholic veneration of the Virgin Mary derives from ancient pagan religions. It's quite offensive to Catholics, Protestants, and most evangelicals, and of course is based on a fast and loose interpretation of ancient history. (by User:Kent.lee)

From the edit history I see that most of the material on Hislop's silly ideas was moved from Christmas, where it was even more out of place. Nimrod was the centerpiece of his theories, but it doesn't necessarily follow that his theories ought to be the centerpiece of an article on Nimrod. How about moving the whole ==Alexander Hislop's interpretation== section over to The Two Babylons and leaving just the little bit under the "Interpretations" header? I'll do that and see if anyone objects. —E. Underwood 17:20, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Regarding Nimrod

I reverted Nimrod to a previous state, I think someone vandalized it. If I am mistaken, I apologize, Bob 20:29, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Antecessor

It should be interesting to state, in a disambiguation page or elsewhere, the person or object from whom others derive, if it is known and relevant. In our case it is the king which appears in the Bible who came first. --Harvestman 10:00, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] City of Nimrod

The German Wikkipaedia makes reference to a battle in 614 in which Nabopolassar sacked a city called Nimrod (carrying on to capture Niniveh in 612). I can't find any references that appear to be decent source material, only a few places that mention it matter of fact (and plenty of wikkipaedia mirrors). Agathoclea 20:50, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps this means Nimrud, the modern name for the Assyrian city of Calah, although that was destroyed in 612. john k 21:04, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

that is the one. It seems that dating is a bit contended.

  • "Nimrud continued to be a major centre until it fell to the invading Babylonians and Medes between 614-612 BC" [1]
  • "probably by the survivors of the first destruction of Nimrud in 614 B.C." [2]


I'll have to dig a little more - thanks Agathoclea 23:07, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

This german site explains the discrepancy - The city was taken in 614 and burned, but the final destruction was not until 612. Agathoclea 23:30, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NIMROD MIGHT BE KURDISH

Many have speculated on the true identity of this king, trying to match him up with numerous Assyrian, Babylonian, and even Egyptian kings. To this date, however, his true identity remains a mystery.

I saw this sentence on the net. What this sentence is saying that Nimrod identity is not yet clear. Therefore I have something to say.

Maybe Nimrod is Kurdish. I will now explain why.

Etymologies of the name "Nimrod" is I believe is not sufficient.

Now I will explain a much better etymology of name Nimrod.

In Kurdish language Ni/Ne is a negative word. Nedi for example means "not seen".

Mir means death in Kurdish.

Nimir, nemir or Nemird means "Immortal" in Kurdish. This might mean that the King Nimrod is immortal.

Nemir,Nemird= Nimrod.

What do you think? I think it is very good explanation of his name.

And I also read that Nimrod lived at least 500 years which reinforces Kurdish word etymology.

Maybe He was Kurdish.

No original research. RossMM 17:11, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

In order for Nimrod to be Kurdish it would have to predate him. Which means that Cush,Ham and Noah would have to be Kurdish. I strongly suggest that he was Cushite in both reality and appearance. Tom 06/18/07

Unbelievable! Kurdish? Why? Because that would make him more caucasian? His identity a "mystery"? Why is it a mystery? If you're going to accept that Nimrod existed, then accept his origins and quit trying to explain them or apologize for them because you know that he is the grandson of Ham, the father of the black race. An accepted truth for Bible believers. If he is the grandson of Ham, and Africa is the birthplace of man, and history attests the dominance of black races during this time by the accounts of classical writers and ancient records, why would it be a mystery? And why is it that whenever confronted with the possibility of black people in biblical (or ancient history period, for that matter) being or doing something of importance or renown, there is always a need for white analysts to disclaim or explain or shroud the matter in confusion and "must be other thans"? This is pure and simply racism and prejudice. And it is childish and outdated. Eve 10/14/07 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.236.189.114 (talk) 17:25, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Shem killed Nimrod?

The article and various websites tell that one legend has it that Shem killed Nimrod? Where does this legend stem from? I think that the source of this legend should be found and mentioned in the article. Summer Song (talk) 07:18, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Islamic text and Watersmeet

First off, that last bit of text is a bit heavy, weighing in at several paragraphs of apparent direct quoting from scripture, with Nimrod barely mentioned as a footnote until the last paragraph or so. I plan to get back to the article later to trim it down to just a description of the Islamic view of Nimrod as regards Ibrahim. Secondly, the mention of Watersmeet to me seems significant based on the fact that I've seen them mentioned in several sports-related article including one which cites how a mention on one of the Nike commercials, "Without sports, who would cheer for the Nimrods?", spurred a small high-school team's merchandising to approximately $80,000 in two months. [3] -Fuzzy (talk) 20:43, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Nimrod is mentioned in Sura 2:260 and 21:68f. Any entry on him from a Muslim perspective should follow the OT ones (as these surely are a lot older!) and be based on the two short stories that are mentioned in these two places in the Quran. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.180.242.49 (talk) 16:08, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree. The section needs to be trimmed and placed after the older attestations. Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 16:54, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Citation needed in May 2008

A Biblical verse citation does not satisfy the required citation for the unsourced assertions below:

The citation must address the ambiguity in the Ancient Hebrew. That one translation into English is phrased in a certain way (i.e. the Biblical verse cited) does not address that an ambiguity exists, even if the translator in that case believes there is an ambiguity. That is, the citation is neither broad enough nor necessarily relevant to the claim of original ambiguity.

The removal of the citation needed tag was inappropriate and should not be made again without considerable consensus. 75.67.40.227 (talk) 03:21, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Try clicking the link, and then reading some of the various translations "reflected in the various English versions", if you don't believe that the correct interpretation of this verse is contested. I suspect that you know perfectly well that the interpretation of this verse IS contested, and could verify this, with pages and pages of citations to the nature of the ambiguity of this verse, in about 0.25 seconds just as easily as I could, which is why I consider such 'citation needed' tags for verses that are already cited, frivolous and a waste of editors' valuable time. Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 11:49, 29 May 2008 (UTC)