Talk:Nguyễn

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Contents 1 Popular surname 2 阮 3 New info on history of name 4 Removal of Notable Nguyen section 5 "most popular exclusively Asian family name"? 6 Audio file of name 7 Origin And Usage Section Needs Rework 8 Family Guy reference 9 So is it originally Chinese or not? 10 Suggest of split 11 Stress 12 Great article! 13 Meaning 14 A Hunted surname

[edit] Popular surname

Why is this name so common? According to the article, basically half of Vietnamese are Nguyens....--Menchi 11:13, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Nguyen is the best last name that anybody can have.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.136.141.229 (talk • contribs)

If you get in a fight with one of the Nguyens then you would have all of them against you only because they all stick together.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.136.141.229 (talk • contribs)

Actually, not everyone with Nguyễn surname is related to each other. I don't think it's more than 1/10 of people with Nguyễn surname is related to each other, except they are Vietnamese!

[edit] 阮

阮- how is this pronounced in its Chinese form?—Preceding unsigned comment added by Chinoiserie (talk • contribs)

Yun in Cantonese and Ruan in Mandrian and. --Menchi 05:00, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] New info on history of name

DHN, you've added some excellent information about the history of this name. Great work. Badagnani 20:48, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, I've been meaning to do it for a while now, but your editing gave me the impetus to do it. DHN 21:11, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

honestly, why is Van Nguyen there as a notable Nguyen? If we're going to put down drug smugglers on the page, we may as well put the whole damn country there

[edit] Removal of Notable Nguyen section

I propose that the "Notable Nguyen" section be removed from this article or severely pruned. Practically half of the country are Nguyen, and those who happen to have articles written about them on Wikipedia aren't really worth mentioning in the bigger scheme of things. I only see several names that are truly notable: Nguyen Dynasty, Nguyen Lords (same family), Nguyen Sinh Cung, Nguyen Van Thieu, Nguyen Huu Tho, Nguyen Cao Ky, and Nguyen Du. DHN 07:59, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

I have removed some of the fancruft from the list. I think only people of international and historical significance should be added. DHN 08:16, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm removing this section altogether, it's receiving too much "vanity entries" and is pointless. DHN 16:22, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps, List of notable Nguyen's deserves its own page. THe list of notable Pham's i short enough to keep it in itself.Amiaheroyet 05:43, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

I suggest a separate article for notable Nguyens, as we have for Chen, Li, etc. It's a very helpful thing for research. Badagnani (talk) 00:44, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Such an article wouldn't be much more useful than a list of Vietnamese; such an article will undoubtedly be full of vanity entries. Due to the systemic bias inherent in Wikipedia (recentism, English-language sources, etc.), it will also be filled with people who aren't really important in the scheme of things while arguably more important people would be left out. DHN (talk) 01:35, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Non-notable Nguyens shouldn't have articles to begin with and the article can certainly be policed to eliminate vanity redlinks. As with List of Irish Americans, it can be categorized by profession. No problems. Badagnani (talk) 01:40, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't object to an article like that, but somehow I suspect it's going to end up with more of the 1.5 million or so Vietnamese Americans within the past 30 years than with the 86 million Vietnamese in the past 2000 years. DHN (talk) 01:44, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "most popular exclusively Asian family name"?

No way, that can't be. "Wong" must be the most common surname for Asians in North America for both historical and demogrpahic reasons. The Cantonese/southern Chinese are the most common Asian groups in the Americas, and "Wong" is their most common surname. Viet version of it is, of course, "Hoang". Le Anh-Huy 07:39, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Nguyen ranks 229, Kim is next at 233, Wong is ranked 459, Tran is ranked 476 and Wang is ranked >1000. Wang (Vuong) is much more common in China.[1][2]. DHN 13:59, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Stats like this are good to have. Surprising that someone should get the math wrong, given the demographics involved.

[edit] Audio file of name

I would like an audio file posted of the correct pronunciation and the most popular Americanized version. Is it like the "gwen" (like Gwen Steffani) or "when" (like "When does the train leave?"). --24.249.108.133 21:25, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

The audio of the correct pronunciation is already in the article. DHN 22:22, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Fantastic! It wasn't there when I initially posted my request. So it is "gwen"! --Navstar 04:27, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

"Gwen?" You must be listening to a different audio file. "Wayoon", two syllables, seems to be the simplest way to render it in English (or "Ngway-un" perhaps, but that'd be more confusing.)

[edit] Origin And Usage Section Needs Rework

I propose that the Origin and Usage Section get a bit of rework... The paragraph that begins "many events contributed to the name's prominence" seems to provide a lot of good information.. But is rather confusing to read... The first part of the paragraph talks about political/dynastic changes causing name changes... then came some mention of "awarding the surnames" which seems to imply a different subject... finally, there is mention of criminals changing names... My suggestion: change paragraph into 3 parts... 1 related to the change of dinasties... 2 related to the awarding of surnames (which seems to have little information) 3 related to the criminals part......

In the change of dynasties portion... I think the readability is currently poor.. probably needs some edit..

Also, are there other things that caused increases in usage of the name?

If no one objects, I will make the changes... But I would like some additional details that can be added...

Duy T. Nguyen 19:11, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Family Guy reference

There is a reference in the show Family Guy where the dog Brian pronounces the name "Nee-GOO-Yan," is there room for references to the name in popular culture? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.210.104.120 (talk) 16:49, 16 January 2007 (UTC).

I wouldn't object, although these references aren't really worth mentioning, since any show that has a Vietnamese character is bound to have someone named Nguyen. DHN 20:34, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] So is it originally Chinese or not?

People with this surname are most often associated with Vietnam. While some believe the surname is of Chinese origin^{[citation needed]}, written in Chinese as 阮—pronounced Ruǎn (Ruan) in Standard Mandarin and Yun (Yuen) in Cantonese (see Chinese surnames), others believe its origin is in Vietnam.

[a few paragraphs later]

Like many surnames in Vietnam and other Chinese-influenced cultures (including Korea and Japan), the name Nguyễn is of Chinese origin, and is shared with those in Chinese culture with the same surname.

Don't these statements directly contradict one other? One says that it might be either Chinese or Vietnamese, and the other one asserts that it is Chinese. - furrykef (Talk at me) 11:10, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I removed the apparent contradiction. It was originally asserted to be Chinese, but an editor didn't think it was, and we couldn't find much info about the matter, so we just removed the Chinese reference. DHN 16:18, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Nguyễn is vietnamese surname, nobody can deny it. It is very difficult to know if it is originally chinese or not, because Vietnam in long old time used chinese writing as well. 84.19.57.254 01:46, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Ruan is just the Chinese equiv, like Giovanni is Italian and John is English.--220.238.65.180 08:06, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Suggest of split

split it with Ruan and Nguyễn,though they got something in common,the ethymology,but like the chinese and korean surname wikt:李,Li (surname) and Lee (Korean name) were already separated.Ksyrie(Talkie talkie) 15:45, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Currently, there's no article on Ruan (surname). DHN 17:16, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

So,I suggest we split it.--Ksyrie(Talkie talkie) 19:24, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Currently, I don't see any information regarding the surname "Ruan" in this article, except its etymology. I'm not sure what you want to split? If there's nothing to split, I will remove the tag. DHN 20:01, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I am just inquiring whether it is suitable to make another Ruan (surname),because,on the top of article Ruan,Nguyễn is placed,I am not sure if all the parties are welcomed another Ruan page.--Ksyrie(Talkie talkie) 21:00, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Stress

Hi, I can't read Tieng Viet, but the I had a question about the English approximation. Where is the stress in the name? I mean 'ngwin is different than ng'win or something like that Mallerd 15:20, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

You can ignore the "ng" and read it as "win". DHN 15:26, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks :) Mallerd 19:26, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Great article!

I just want to congratulate everyone who helped to build this article. It is an awesome help to anyone who wants some quick, accessible, helpful, free info about this surname. The usefulness of Wikipedia is proved by such articles. Great job! — ¾-10 17:11, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Meaning

Does anybody have a source that says (or even speculates) as to the meaning of the name? Blast Ulna (talk) 00:36, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

It seems to be the Sino-Vietnamese pronunciation of the Chinese surname Ruan (阮). It's not clear what the literal meaning of that Chinese surname is, however. Badagnani (talk) 01:44, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

I doubt that the name is Chinese in origin. The Viets lived in what is now southern China for an extremely long time. More recently they moved southwards. Asians typically attribute everything to the Chinese, sometimes incorrectly. Blast Ulna (talk) 02:24, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

It's undoubtedly associated with the 阮 character, because that's how it's been written for centuries. Are you claiming that the name predated its association with that written character? Badagnani (talk) 02:40, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] A Hunted surname

Russian neo-nazi's generally search the Moscow phonebooks for the nguyen surname, being as it is a prevalent indicator of asian ancestry. These people are then the targets of brutal rascist attacks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.237.124.253 (talk) 08:40, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

What is the source for this? Badagnani (talk) 08:42, 11 June 2008 (UTC)