Talk:Negev Bedouins
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[edit] POV
Am I the only one who sees the severe imbalance in this article? It basically says that Israel discriminates against the Bedouins and destroys their homes etc. etc. and only mentions in passing that the government provides education. However, the following points are either not clarified or not mentioned at all:
- Israel provides free housing to many Bedouins, many of whom refuse, but this isn't even a choice for most Jews who have to pay huge amounts for small bits of land/small apartments (except a minority eligible for shikunim - Amidar and such - also is underprivileged areas which are almost comparable to the poor conditions in Rahat etc.)
- Bedouin towns have very high crime rates, blood revenge is very popular there so there are a lot of murders, and the police is often afraid to enter these places. The Bedouin towns are generally anti-establishment, anti-law enforcement, etc. and this harms Israel's ability to help them.
- Because of the extreme high birthrate of the Bedouins, the government may have trouble providing many of them with basic services - this isn't just a result of discrimination (although I will admit that a certain degree of discrimination takes place)
- Most of the Bedouins who don't live in the permanent settlements (Rahat, Tel Sheva, etc.) and are not connected to electricty and water, do so out of choice, because they supposedly want to preserve their dignity. Some make temporary villages which are against the law (so they knowingly break the law), even though the government is actually interested in settling the Bedouins permanently, so it shouldn't be that difficult to acquire a permit to start construction.
- Some Arab MKs actively help Bedouins break construction laws and undermine the legal system in Israel, especially considering this is less of an issue of discrimination because neither Jews nor Arabs are allowed to just take a piece of land (in the Negev or elsewhere), settle on it and start building. This also severely harms the ability of the Israeli authorities to help the Bedouins.
-- Ynhockey (Talk) 07:23, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
- I agree that this is problematic. TewfikTalk 09:37, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
- I agree with a couple of your points. Why don't you add your points to the article?Vice regent 21:06, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
--I agree too: this article is worse than just a POV violation, it amounts to outright libel. I would like to invite anyone to come to the Negev and see what it going on: Bedouin live as they wish-- lawlessly, they take over territories with impunity, the have among the highest birthrates in the world-- meaning, no reasonable amount of social service provision by Israel will ever significantly break the cycle of poverty and raise their standard of living, they act in a parasitic fashion-- with very very high theft rates, services providers are afraid to enter their communities as they are very violent and often shoot outsiders, they engage in polygamy (they often have so many children that they do not know their own children's names), they steal steal steal: recently, in a shopping mall near Be'ersheva, they tied a truck to a metal electric pole, and dragged it away, to smelt it to sell the metal for profit (in one of many illegal such operations that the government is afraid to bust) they steal metal of memorials, they steal manhole covers, leaving them exposed, they desecrate, they destroy, they steal. Open any history book-- look at their history-- they sacked Jerusalem so many times as to render it uninhabitable and caused its population to empty. This is an important part of the truth that is just ignored in the article. They refuse to join Israeli society-- but they are only guests in Israel (nomadic squatters of lands that never belonged to them.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.1.192.98 (talk) 16:09, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- If anything, the article is biased in favour of Israel! Primarily because it omits any reference to the ongoing destruction of Bedouin villages and property. The above contributor makes the quite bizarre claim that "THEY take over territories with impunity" - but that is exactly what the Israeli government is doing! And phrases like "the have among the highest birthrates", "THEY are very violent and often shoot outsiders, THEY engage in polygamy", "THEY steal steal steal" and "they are only guests in Israel (nomadic squatters of lands that never belonged to them" are clearly full of hate and normally the sort of language associated with racists. Pretzelberg (talk) 12:55, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
-- From what I see here, one could hardly argue that any of this is libel. Thank you, Pretzelberg, for taking the time to dispute the above overtly racist comments, point by point -such language should not get by without comment (the comments in October 2007). YHockney - true, the Bedouin have problems, internal social problems as well as externally caused ones. I think one thing that should be clear though, is that Bedouin don't need 'help' solving their problems - they need to deal with their social problems themselves. However, their civil problems, and their political problems, are another matter. First, the civil problems: providing the services accorded to every other citizen, to the Bedouin, is not 'helping' them, it is simply acknowledging their inalienable rights, their humanity. Second, the political problems: acknowledging the right of Bedouin, like other citizens of Israel in Moshavim, the right to engage in agriculture, is also not about 'humoring' their need for dignity in the sense of 'Ard (honor), it is about not transferring as many as 40,000 IDF-trained human beings against their will. Want to push Bedouin to the edge? We're getting close. The Bedouin say they will not launch an intifada - I take that to mean that they do not want to. But if plans to move the Bedouin are executed, then things could change. I just think, why not let them be, 'let' them stay in their villages, betach, lama lo? It would be a lot less bloody, a lot less expensive, a lot more humane, better for Israel's soul. So, sure, you could see the above article as biased. Or you could see it as an understatement.Whynot25 (talk) 02:54, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] POV, take 2
This whole article is crap, and will be deleted if no one will rewrite it. Guy0307 (talk) 12:07, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
