Talk:National Maximum Speed Law

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[edit] 85 mph speedometers

I have moved this to here because cursory Google searches suggest this may be an urban legend perpetuated by communal reinforcement:

  • Joan Claybrook, head of the NHTSA under President Jimmy Carter, in an effort to get people to pay attention to there now widely ignored law, passed a rule requiring that new vehicle speedometers have 55 mph bolded and not have the ability to indicate speeds higher than 85 mph. This rule was in effect from 1980 until it was repealed in 1989.

Can anyone find a definitve source that supports this? Note that "thousands" of Google hits are meaningless if they all point to web forums. We need reliable sources for this one. Nova SS 19:45, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Despite the edit summary's claim that there are thousands of references, a google search for the whole term brings up 13 results, not all of them re. the US.This Heritage Foundation paper from 1986 uses the term in the first para. "the 55 mph speed limit, technically called the National Maximum speed law (NMSL)"- although it only talks about the supposed fuel efficiency effect of the law. Richardjames444 19:49, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
oh yes, and the paper indicates that the law was passed in 1974, which supports the article's claims as far as chronology. Richardjames444 19:51, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
What are you talking about, and how does that relate to 85 mph speedometers? And who said "thousands of references" and on what? Please start a new section on this page or provide some kind of context so we can have a clue what you're talking about. Nova SS 19:53, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
OK, now I see your "thousands of references" claim. (Kelly Cook's edit.) Now what the heck are you talking about with the rest of your statements? Nova SS 19:54, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Just trying to be helpful. My bad. Richardjames444 19:59, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Denial of true facts is worse than having something non-referenced

In regards to the 85 mph speedometer...

You guys want to find the actual NHTSA rule go ahead as it existed for over a decade. Everything for the NHSTA prior to 1991 is in the National Archives warehouse for record group RG-416 in College Park MD, but quite simple the speedometer rule did exist.

As the bolded text in this policy states, The burden of evidence lies with the editor who has made the edit in question. As I do not know if it is true, and I think it would be hard to add that it is common knowledge (as it is a regulation that nobody can seem to find), it needs a source. So, the text (about the government rule) should only be reinserted if it accompanied by a {{fact}} or the source. Thanks. Ufwuct 18:41, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

To verify this, I walked a few buildings over and asked some older engineers who design speedometers at a major automobile manufacture. They immediately confirmed that it was a NHTSA rule. And yes they also confirmed were derisively known in the auto industry as "Claybrook speedometers" though finding an official reference to that term would be fairly difficult, there were no blogs back then

Putting down something so wishy-washy as "Some cars of the era had speedometers which emphasized 55 mph" is just plain wrong, since they all did. The burden of proof should be on those who seem not to believe that such a nonsensical rule existed. It should be easy too, find one car built in the early 1980s and sold in the United States (GM, Ford, Chrysler, Honda, Ferrari ... it really doesn't matter) without a factory installed 85 mph speedo. You won't as all of them have a maximum indicated speed of 85 mph with equal spacing for equal speeds with a special emphasis on 55 mph.

The simple question to ask yourself, is do you really think an Porsche 928 sold in the U.S. and capable of driving at more than 150 mph would have restricted itself to only indicating 85 mph if this it wasn't government mandated, but an 85 mph speedometer it contains. [1], specifically [2] -- KelleyCook 18:53, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

I find it hard to believe that there are no definitive online references to something so hated. Nova SS 02:48, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] See also spamming

We don't need to add links to energy conservation or the 1973 crisis because both are already linked earlier in the article. Isopropyl 02:31, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

I found another photo of a speed limit sign being changed to 55 mph in 1974 and added a link.

[edit] NPOV

I think more needs to be done to make this article conform to a neutral point of view. It seems the majority of references for items presented as fact are from policy groups favoring one side of the debate. While I am not all that familiar with the subject, it definitely needs some review for NPOV. CapitalSasha ~ talk 01:57, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

The lack of citations in favor are because virtually no credible articles exist to favor a national 55 mph speed limit. It has been picked apart and lambasted and arguably only existed because of regulatory inertia and fear of change more than anything else. During its repeal, little credible information came out against it except perhaps an EPA study alleging an increase in smog-forming pollutants near highways. Nova SS (talk) 00:41, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
If there is such a large amount of strong evidence we should be able to do better than a citation to one article from the Heritage Foundation and another from the CATO Institute to document all of it. Neither of those are widely viewed as impartial sources. 71.153.193.198 (talk) 18:48, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
I am not in favor of a national 55 mph speed limit, however I find the Heritage Foundation reference (Ref 5) questionable. The statement that the 55 mph limit saved no more than 1% of fuel use does not make physical sense nor could I find any published DOT article by a Dr. John Eberhart. Air drag is increased by 86% at 75 vs 55. For most cars this increases the drag force by 50-60 pounds; for a Hummer it's almost 120 pounds. From personal experience, my gas mileage improved by 20% by driving at 55 vs 75. If the original DOD reference cannot be found, I recommend deleting the Hertitage Foundation reference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.190.227.167 (talk) 21:20, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
There's a WHOOOOOOOLE lot more to speed policy than middle school math. Hopefully you can accept that the systemwide effect changing a speed limit is not as simple as anticipating corresponding changes in actual speeds and zero other impacts. Novasource (talk) 01:00, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Two years later, I've found a definitive reference.

Washington Post -- March 10th, 1978 B11, Larry Kramer "Odometer Security Rules Due"

Federal Traffic Safety Chief Joan Claybrook ... said the National Traffic Safety Administration regulations also call for 1980 model cars to read only 85 miles an hour. And she wants 55 mph reading on the speedometer to be highlighted to remind drivers to observe the national speed limit."

I have a pdf of the scanned newspaper article, but that is from a pay source, so I cannot pubicly redistribute it. Email me if you need to see it. -- KelleyCook (talk) 20:28, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Your summary above says the reg was only to limit speedos to 85 mph. Joan Claybrook's preference is not a regulation, therefore it is not credible to say that emphasis on 55 had anything to do with NHTSA. Nova SS (talk) 04:33, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
To respond to your talk page edit comment, the perceived fact that all cars in a certain era had emphasis on 55 mph is not evidence of a regulation.
I don't object to pointing out the commonality of emphasis on 55. I object to declaring existence of a regulation when, as of yet, no credible proof has been found. Nova SS (talk) 17:52, 22 February 2008 (UTC)