Talk:Mongolia

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Contents

[edit] Culture

Following sentence:

"Mongolia has its own ethnic group, which comprises 85% of the country's population."

let to assume that only the Khalkha Mongols are Mongols. It didn´t include all other mongolian ethnics in Mongolia. (195.3.113.176)

For "latebird": Find this sentence not only in the thread "Culture of Mongolia" but also in the thread "Mongolia". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.3.113.166‎ (talk • contribs) 18:43, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh sorry, I didn't see that. I just noticed that you removed it from the other article. The statement is very unclear. It is also redundant and in the wrong place, so I'm going to remove it here as well. We already have a section about demographics that explains it much better. --Latebird 18:43, 3 June 2007 (UTC)


Following sentence:

"The main festival is Naadam, which celebrates the anniversary of Mongolian independence from China"

Naadam dates back to 15th century. It is also celebrated in Inner Mongolia (PRC). Thus it can not be true that Naadam is for celebrating the independence. Maybe some Mongolians celebrate the independence in this festival , however I am sure that the forementioned case is rare. Having several Mongolian family members, I know that for them the independence is not worthy of celebration. They rather like to think about the most glorious time! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Steve19820118 (talk • contribs) --Latebird 13:41, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

If you can provide reliable published sources about the real origin of the festival, you're welcome to add that information to the article. However, it is correct that it was officially redesignated to celebrate the independence during socialism. I don't know if this designation was officially changed again later, but I'm sure it has lost relevance. --Latebird 13:41, 8 August 2007 (UTC)


11th of July is called Ulsyn Bayar because it is somehow related to Mongolia's independence in 1921 (surely Gantuya would know more). However, I read somewhere (Pevtsov's travel report?) that there was a similar holiday in mid July before (or, more exatly, in the 1880s), just that it was in honour of Matreya. But yes, 11th of July is about independence - and those Mongolians that I have met so far all found independence from China very important. Maybe even more important than Chinggis Yaan 20:21, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
Aswering the question of Yaan "On another note, what exactly is the significance of July 11th?" at Talk:Gantuya eng:
The 11th of July used to be officially called the anniversary of the Ardiin Hubishal (People's Revolution). Just like the 7th of November in USSR. For the MPRP before 1990, Ardiin Hubishal was first of all a revolution of the exploited class of poor herders overthrowing the rule of the exploiting feudal class in the light of the Lenin's teachings. On the other hand, they also underlined this revolution was not only against Mongolian feudals, but also against "imperialism"--foreign powers which exploited Mongolia. The arrival of the Mongolian Revolutionary troops and Red Army in Urga and establishment of the People's Government landmarked the victory of the revolution. Thus this day for them landmarked not only the revolution of the poor class but also liberation of the country from foreign exploitation, which is perhaps independence. After 1990, the historians claimed there have been 3 revolutions: Undesnii hubishal (National Revolution) of 1911, Undesnii Ardchilsan Hubishal (National Democratic Revolution) of 1921 and the Ardchilsan Huv'sgal (Democratic Revolution) of 1989-1990. However, the process of gaining of independence has been a long process with many landmarks. This makes the Mongolians argue which of the landmarks should be celebrated as the independence day. When they discuss about defining national holidays, each parliamentary party takes its own POV. According to MPRP 26 of November of 1924 is most important as the Constitution was adopted. According to DP 26 of November of 1924 doesn't have any relation to the independence. Currently they are discussing whether they should celebrate 29 December 1911. As for 11th of July, it is now celebrated as an anniversary of Ardiin Hubishal (still using this term) plus an anniversary of the Great Mongol State. Probably it's convenient to choose a summer day for the biggest celebration of the year because Naadam festival has been organised in summer since ancient times regardless any political implication. Gantuya eng 06:30, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Population

The statement "About one-third of the population lives in Ulaanbaatar" doesn't square with the numbers given here and in Ulaanbaatar. The total population is stated to be about 1.5M people, while the population of Ulaanbaatar is quoted as about 1M. Which number is correct? -Athaler 20:34, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

You might want to do that comparison again, but this time with the total population figure, and not the surface area... ;) --Latebird 21:18, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

We currently live in Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia and we have found out that Ulannbaatar contains almost half of Mongolia's total population, which is around 1.3 million right now. The previous information of Ulaanbaatar haveing 38% of Mongolia's population is not accurate and outdated. We got our information from the following site: http://www.welcome2mongolia.com/mongolia-facts/cities-and-aimags/ulaanbaatar-capital-city.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Isutechnology (talk • contribs) 06:33, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

The source you cite (www.welcome2mongolia.com) is not completely relevant encyclopedic source. You live in UB, so you remember how in April 2007 was born 1M UB citizen. And relevant official source clames 1.029.900 for January 31 2008. This value includes Baganuur, Bagakhangai and Nalaikh. If Nalaikh is relatively close to the UB, but Baganuur and Bagakhangai no. So the UB city proper even now is less than 1M.
Using rounded figures now UB (with düüregs listed) is 1M or 38% of Mongolia total.
Urban population (mostly aimag centers and several other cities and тосгон's, see largest at List of cities in Mongolia) out of UB is 23% of Mongolia total.
Rural poulation consists of the sum centers population and the rest (nomadic predominantly). Sum centers are about 15%, the rest - about 25%.
We have:
  • 38% UB= 1,000,000
  • 23% other cities= 600,000
  • 15% sum centers= 400,000
  • 25% nomadic and seminomadic =650,000.
If we will add 300,000 to the UB we need subtract this value from the rest of Mongolia population - it is 4 average aimags. You can find 4 empty aimags? Bogomolov.PL (talk) 08:12, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
Official census figures clearly take precedence over some tourist oriented web site of unclear authorship. --Latebird (talk) 09:21, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] HDI

Updated information that relates to finding HDI for Mongolia according to site: http://www.asiasource.org/profiles/ap_mp_03.cfm?countryid=19, shows that the HDI of Mongolia currently is 0.683. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Isutechnology (talk • contribs) 06:43, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

The relevant source is UN, where HDI is 0.691. Bogomolov.PL (talk) 08:44, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
Other relevant source is U.N. Development programme in Mongolia Mongolian Human Development Report 2007 which brings us fugures based on the national statistics (national and aimag level): 0.667 (2002), 0.680 (2003), 0.692 (2004), 0.707 (2005), 0.718 (2006). All data are available on aimag level 1999-2006.Bogomolov.PL (talk) 16:07, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Aimags

We found out that Mongolia now has 20 provinces, or aimags, and 3 cities have been declared. We got our information from the following site: <http://www.postbank.mn/eng/?ac=branches> —Preceding unsigned comment added by Isutechnology (talk • contribs) 06:41, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

The relevant source is Constitution of Mongolia, commercial sources (Шуудан Банк) - no. Bogomolov.PL (talk) 08:55, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures

Photo of the Parliament building ought to be updated because the roof is now completed. If someone has a newer version of the photo of the building, please contribute. 2 pictures on this page (View of UB fomr BG Hotel window and Prl. Building are duplicated at the page for [Ulaanbaatar]. Gantuya Eng 26 July 2007

Aren't you living in Mongolia? Go make a picture! There's nothing wrong with using a picture in several articles, btw. --Latebird 14:10, 26 July 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Temujin

From the point of view of the Classical Mongolian script it is "Temujin" rather than "Temüjin". Gantuya eng

Modern Mongolian sources seem to consistently use the straight u (including yourself on mnwiki), so I think it makes sense to transcribe from that. (This discussion really belongs here, btw.). --Latebird 14:45, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

You are right. What I meant is that if we decide to use just the 26 English characters without accentations, we could rely on the vowel harmony of the Mongolian language as in case of the Classical script. The trouble with the accented characters is that they frequently cause technical problems. For example "ü" looks like a Cyrillic character on my PC. To some extent, the accented Latin alphabet behaves like a non-Latin alphabet. Gantuya eng

Since we're working with Unicode here, incorrectly displayed characters point to a misconfiguration on your PC (possibly an unsuitable font). Other than that, I assume you are familiar with WP:MON? --Latebird 14:55, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Land of the blue sky?

I read places on the internet that states that Mongolia is stated as the "Land of the Blue Sky". [1], [2], Mostly from tourist sites. Is this a saying that might be added in, if correct of course. CarpD 04:20, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it's correct. Gantuya eng 04:57, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Republic of Mongolia?

I added 'Republic of Mongolia' in the article but someone removed it. Why? Do you have any idea? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dagvadorj (talk • contribs) --Latebird 13:34, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Because that's not the name of the country. --Latebird 13:38, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Daylight Saving Time

I live in Mongolia, and DST has been officially stopped from this year. I want to include this in the article, but I cant find any references on the web? Can anyone help me? --ChinneebMy talk 07:56, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

This question has been on my list for quite some time. It doesn't have to be an online reference, though. If you're living in Mongolia, I'm sure there's some official publication you can cite for us? I have also seen conflicting information whether all of Mongolia uses the same timezone or not. --Latebird 17:43, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
Never mind, I found one. :) --ChinneebMy talk 13:46, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
To be honest, I don't trust the usual online sources (weather and timezone sites) very much about this, because they tend to be user contributed like Wikipedia. Is there no official publication by the governement that we can use? --Latebird 06:26, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Kazakstan stopped using SDT also. In Uvs aimag (I was not in Ulaangom, in Eastern sums only) was 1 hour difference. Bogomolov.PL 04:40, 1 October 2007 (UTC) DST was cancelled in Mongolia - it is true! We spent 1.5 months in July - August and it was no DST, but it is from Mongolian embassy: [3] Bogomolov.PL 07:17, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Anthem name

Why is this page called this? I am a Mongolian living in Mongolia, and have personally never heard the Mongolian national anthem called this. It is simply called "Монгол улсын төрийн дуулал", literally "The National Anthem of Mongolia". I rather think that "Bugd Nairamdakh Mongol" is an abbreviation of "Бүгд Найрамдах Монгол Ард Улсын Төрийн Дуулал", meaning "The National Anthem of the Mongolian People's Republic", the former name of the anthem. --ChinneebMy talk 14:28, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thankyou

Thankyou for making this page it's a realy huge help with my project. Though you might want to add some things in like the climate of Mongolia one of the subtitles. 68.205.188.68 17:24, 14 October 2007 (UTC) Michael

[edit] Tibetan Buddhism

How come the reference was removed to it being the only Chinese nation with Vajryana Buddhism as its predominant religion? Surely Singapore, Taiwan, the PRC, Hong Kong, and Macau can't boast so many Tibetan-rite Buddhists. Provide a citation or don't vandalise! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.147.0.44 (talk • contribs) 13:08, 17 November 2007

Because calling Mongolia a "Chinese country" is a giant can of worms that is better dealt with on the Talk Page before. Also, it is inconsistent with the rest of the article, where "China" is referred to as a separate entity. If you want to keep the statement, you should make the case for the term "Chinese country" here first, and then the entire article would need to be edited accordingly. Kelvinc (talk) 18:58, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
That's ridiculous to say that "China" is referred to as a separate entity. Singapore is a Chinese country, Taiwan is a Chinese country, the PRC didn't invent China. This sounds like racist propaganda where you're trying to accuse all Chinese of some sort of weird ethnic allegiance to communism!—Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.147.0.44 (talk • contribs) 21:25, 17 November 2007
It's not related to communism at all. It's just that Mongolia is about as Chinese as Estonia is Russian. Yaan (talk) 12:21, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
That's ridiculous. Estonians speak a Finno-Ugric language, which itself is part of the Uralic languages, not related to the Indo-European Slavs at all. They may even be part of the proposed Altaic language family, which would make them closer to Turks or Kazakhs or Uyghurs or Kyrgyz than Russians.
Mongolians however, are clearly Chinese. Look at their eyes.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.147.0.44 (talk • contribs) 08:36, 19 November 2007
I always found Mongolians look much more like Greenlanders, and therefore Canadians.Yaan (talk) 13:11, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
Just try to say some words in Chinese and look at your eyes, you see the difference? Do you, Anonyme, mean Chinese are Mongoloid race? Don't mix race, language and religion. Bogomolov.PL (talk) 13:23, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
What's the mongoloid race? isn't that that old racist theory about the "three races"? that's ridiculous. People are people. And Mongolians are Chinese people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.147.0.44 (talk) 13:31, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
Bogomolov and Yaan, if Mognolians aren't Chinese, how do you explain this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_mongolia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.147.0.44 (talk) 13:33, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Inner Mongolians aren't real Mongolians, they are Chinese. Any real Mongolian could tell you that. Yaan (talk) 13:38, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

203.147.0.44: replacing the phrase "mongoloid race" with "Chinese" does not change the substance of your claims ("Look at their eyes"). As you say, it's an out-dated way of thinking and using different language to cover it up doesn't change the underlying (erroneous) thinking. Ben Hocking (talk|contribs) 14:00, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
He/she is just a troll. See his/her edits on Greenland and New Zealand.Yaan (talk) 14:05, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
Damnit, I've been caught. Good game you guys. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.147.0.44 (talk) 01:12, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
To the attention of the guy on 203.147.0.44.

First off, please do not troll in this way. And tell me what do you mean by "look at their eyes"? You should learn that Mongolia is not Chinese country both in terms of historical and ethical facts. Even you can not tell Singapore is just Chinese country especially in this globalized world. Or are you telling indirect way that globalization is chinalization? You really keep this in your mind! Please do not just conclude looking at the eyes or something. The determination of races in this way is not your facking business. Bilguun.alt (talk) 09:12, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Why are you wasting your time with that drunk person? 203.147.0.44 is clearly drunk. WP isn't a place for drunkards. He should be blocked. Gantuya eng (talk) 12:37, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
c'mon, he was just having some fun ;-). He didn't seem to care about Mongolia more than about Greenland. Yaan (talk) 09:29, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
let's be clear, Mongolia was part of the Chinese Empire. it doesn't make it a Chinese country anymore than the USA is english country... ;) Mongolia is welcome to rejoin China like how some state join USA in it history but it's for them to decide. btw Singapore is NOT a Chinese country, we ain't like some western country that genocide the native till only a small pocket remains, the malay is still the official language and a good size of the population. Akinkhoo (talk) 02:42, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
"we ain't like some western country that genocide the native till only a small pocket remains." good on you. Yaan (talk) 09:54, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Manchu or Chinese

Contrary to what I wrote in a recent edit summary, "Chinese domination" may not be nonsense, but it's certainly POV. The Khalkha did in fact submit to the Manchu and not to China, the administration between 1691 and 1911 was in the hands of ethnic Manchu and Mongols, not Han Chinese, and the official reason to declare independence in 1911 was (IIRC) discontent with Manchu, not Chinese, rule. Yaan (talk) 02:43, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

The people who intrude Mongolia related pages with their Chinese POVs never sign in. They are shy of what they are doing. Gantuya eng (talk) 02:46, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
the Qing dynasty is the Chinese Empire, Chinese doesn't limit to Han. the thing here is Manchuria was in Mongolia before the Qing dynasty was formed? in which Manchuria was still a different country from China. but after the Manchurian merge to form the Qing dynasty, only at that point, is Mongolia considered part of Chinese Empire and it's adminstration. let's stick to this? Akinkhoo (talk) 02:27, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
This is the modern Chinese point of view. The Mongolian point of view is different (guess why Qing Dynasty is called Manj Chin Uls, not something like Khyatad Chin Uls or Chin Dundad Uls), as is that of a number of western scholars of the country. You are welcome to create an article on different POVs about whether Qing Dynasty is identical to China, but for this article "Manchu" instead of "Chinese" is appropriate enough. Plus it is more precise. And yes, most english speakers will understand "Chinese" as "Han chinese". Yaan (talk) 09:52, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
For the Mongolians "Chinese" is essentially "Han". "Chinese domination" is inaccurate. Gantuya eng (talk) 03:09, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm not sure I would call it a "Domination" either —Preceding unsigned comment added by 156.56.92.123 (talk) 06:03, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Credit rating

Please note that there is no "Credit rating" field included in {{Infobox country}}. It was added by 202.131.1.12 (talk) on 22nd January 2008 with this edit. I have removed the field for the time being but if the infobox includes such a field in future, I have no objection to its inclusion here. Green Giant (talk) 01:18, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] split-up of the empire

I think the traditional view is that the final split only occured after Möngke's death, and that before that time the empire was still somewhat coherent. While it is true that Genghis himself already divided the spoils of his expansions among his children (this was before his death), this does not mean that his children immediatly began to refer to themselves as khans. this does not mean it is a split-up rather than just a subdivision. If you claim that the split-up occured right after Genghis' death, please try and provide some sources. Yaan (talk) 12:48, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Health

"At present, there are 27.7 physicians and 75.7 hospital beds per 10.000 population overall."

27.7 physicians and 75.7 beds per 10.000 population? I don't get it... someone please explain how this makes sense? (Dren (talk) 08:05, 22 March 2008 (UTC))

The only part that doesn't make sense is "At present". It should really refer to a specific year. What other problems do you have with the statement? --Latebird (talk) 09:12, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
Maybe "... per 10.000 inhabitants" would be better English? Just a guess, I don't know either. Yaan (talk) 17:17, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
I think the confusion probably comes from the incorrect punctuation usage. Some nations use comma for digit grouping (thousands, millions, etc) and period for designating the break between the ones place and the tenths place, while other nations have them switched (period for digit grouping, comma for designation of ones place and tenths place). The statement as written above, only makes sense if the first two numbers were written with the first convention, and the last number with the second convention. The statement should be corrected to whichever is the international standard.--Yoda of Borg (talk) 12:38, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for finally pointing that out. Seems like it is really hard to figure out stuff like this for people who grew up with 10.000 = "ten thousand". Too bad the original poster wasn't more specific in his remarks ("75 beds for 10 people ?" would probably have been enough). Yaan (talk) 14:53, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Huns became Huns

Please fix the following sentence in the Early History section: "...some of the Huns migrated West to become the Huns." --Yoda of Borg (talk) 12:43, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] History >> Mongol Empire

Just a quick typo:

"In 1206, ... brutality and ferocity till today ... world history."

Change to still

Thanks!!

Agershon (talk) 21:01, 27 May 2008 (UTC)