Talk:Moa

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Further information might be found on the talk page or at requests for expansion. (January 2007)
To-do list for Moa: edit · history · watch · refresh
  • More on biology
  • Expand on extinction/use by Maori
    • Good reference is Holdaway, R.N., Jacombe, C. (2000) Rapid extinction of the moas (Aves:Dinornithiformes): Model, test, and implications. Science 287, 2250-2254.
Priority 4  
  • Archived text from soon-to-be-deleted page "moas". (automated conversion) 25/2/2002
    • Moas (Dinornithiformes) are a group of large flightless birds numbering about a dozen. They lived on New Zealand and ranged in height from one meter to three and a half meters. They were already extinct when Europeans first landed in 1642.See also Extinct birds
  • Was converted into a redirect to moa by 195.149.37.130 on 21/7/2002
  • Was deleted by Tannin 09:33, 8 Jan 2004 (UTC) because there is no such word. The plural of "moa" is "moa". "Moas" is not a word, and a link to "moas" should show up in red to alert writers to this all-too-often commited error.

Tannin 09:33, 8 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I have added this (as I had originally put it on the Extinct Birds page ages ago) under the new section "Trivia".Dysmorodrepanis 09:05, 19 April 2006 (UTC)


Contents

[edit] Picture

uhhh the picture of the moa is the same one of the picture on the haast's eagle page.

The picture is of a Haast's eagle attacking a moa, so it's used for both.Dinoguy2 03:35, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "region often visited by hunters and hikers"

"Moa experts say the likelihood of any moa remaining alive is extremely unlikely, since they would be giant birds in a region often visited by hunters and hikers." While it is extremely unlikely any survive, the confirmation that moose still exist in NZ would give the lie to the 2nd part of this sentence. A citation for the "moa experts" is needed. Nurg 10:58, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

I think you're missing the point. The implication is not that moa would be instantly gunned down by the legions of hunters roaming the bush, but that there are enough people walking through that area to notice a two metre tall bird wandering about. I've amended the sentence to include "and unnoticed" to make that point more clear. 203.59.171.152 02:59, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] need to expand

This article needs to be expanded and somewhat beautified. I started with moving the stuff from Extinct Birds (which deals with post-1500 extinctions, so moa shouldn't be there anyway except a note on Megalapteryx possible survival to C19). Also, I updated the taxonomy to current standards and expanded the references. As it stands, it is passable, but I am not really satisfied - too many gaps and the formatting could be improved (rm redundancies created by "Extinct Birds" section merger etc). Since I work on the avian extionction lists most of the time, I will only visit here occasionally top dump some new reference when I feel like it (there are tons of moa papers). Stuff on feeding habits etc would be highly appreciated, for example, as they have been reconstructed in detail for some species at least.Dysmorodrepanis 09:05, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Apperance and recent survival

I heard that Maori stories described large moas with colorful crests - is it true? Also, HBW in article of extinct birds mentions live sightings from 19. century by very respectable political figure and Maori chief. Were they refuted? Jurek

More importantly, were they corroborated? Moriori 21:03, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

I've read that the Moa was 12-13 ft tall? but infact it was only 9-10?

Stories mentioning large colourful crests - dubious - in general Māori traditional oral stories are action-based: ie they don't go into what things look like so much as what things do. Kahuroa 04:37, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Taxonomy Confusion

In Taxonomy, it talks about how the kiwi was once thought to be the moa's only living relative, then emus and cassowaries are mentioned as relatives... Which are related to who? Moas + emus & cassowaries, or kiwis + emus and cassowaries?--Mr Fink 03:24, 26 October 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Recent changes to pictures

Not impressed with the yellow blurry pic of a reconstructed moa. Can we revert? Kahuroa 04:38, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Ditto. The Moa being attacked by the eagle was much better. Sabine's Sunbird talk 06:06, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
I thought that the article was supposed to be about the Moa and that the infobox image was supposed to show what the Moa actually looked like. However, noting the criticism, I have returned the earlier image to the infobox. Figaro 07:56, 1 May 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Contradiction?

I have removed this: "the widespread physical evidence that they had actually existed was never closely examined by early European settlers", because the next line begins "In 1839, John W. Harris, a Poverty Bay flax trader who was a natural history enthusiast, was given a piece of unusual bone by a Māori who had found it in a river bank. He showed the 15 cm fragment of bone to his uncle, John Rule ..." and 1839 is pretty early in the settlement of NZ, which really began in earnest after 1840. So that is evidence being 'closely examined' bya very early settler and leading to the identification of Dinornis. Kahuroa 22:16, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Good catch. It does seem pretty dumb. Sabine's Sunbird talk 22:18, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
Cheers. Also would like to find a pre-1839 source for this 'Early European visitors to New Zealand recorded that the Māori had legends and proverbs which referred to huge birds called moa which had once roamed the flats and valleys.' Not that I am doubting that there were legends, but I would like to see what the legends actually said before the identification of Dinornis about what size the 'moa' were and where they 'roamed'. Legends are notoriously prone to contamination from printed sources Kahuroa 22:25, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
There are some books on Maori folklore specifically relating to birds in my Uni. I'll take a glance next time I'm in the library. Sabine's Sunbird talk 22:34, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
Removed 'Early European visitors to New Zealand recorded... etc and replaced with material from published accounts by Polack (1838) and Dieffenbach (1843) relating to the first discovery of fossils, which are also early references to Māori traditions re extinction, size, name etc. Good to have these early accounts since later ones will probably be suspect Kahuroa 06:07, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Extinction

i was looking at the Maori article which mentions the Moa and it seems to contradict what was said inthe article about the extinction of the Moa. In the section Development of Māori culture is says Current anthropological theories, however, take account of the fact that there is no evidence for a pre-Māori people while in the current version of this article it says The extinction of the moa species is generally attributed to hunting and forest clearance by the Polynesian ancestors of the Māori. Neither of them have references attached to them. cheers Philbentley 16:28, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

There is no contradiction in those statements at all. The Polynesians who settled New Zealand became the Māori - they are the same people - and the phrase 'the Polynesian ancestors of the Māori' is a common one in NZ scientific literature. The point is that there was no one in New Zealand when the ancestors of the Māori arrived. I like the phrase 'Polynesian ancestors of the Māori', but maybe it is confusing to those who haven't heard it before. Kahuroa 19:31, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
Fair enough, makes more sence now, I had just read it as there were people before the Māori's but i can see now that it doesn't say that. It's probably just because i was tired yesterday. Doesn't take a lot to confuse me sometimes! CheersPhilbentley 06:34, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Haast's Eagle / Moa picture accuracy?

The picture is currently under consideration as a featured picture, but there have been questions raised about how accurate it is. If you'd care to comment, you should visit the nomination page here. The specific concern is that the scale of the two birds is off, with the eagle being too large. Matt Deres 10:51, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cryptozoologists

The claims by Cryptozoologists section seems to me to be rather too long in relation to the rest of the article. We need to mention that such claims exist, but the section could be cut back a bit, and the photo of a blur is unnecessary. The comparison with the Takahē isn't necessary, and is unsourced. Shall I take a knife to the section, or would someone else like to?-gadfium 07:06, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, maybe you - if I had a knife I'd attack the yellow blurry pic of a 1980s museum moa too. And then I would probably offend its uploader, again. Kahuroa 10:03, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
The section on cryptozoology has been expanded to include other incidents since I wrote that above. The 1993 incident does not appear to warrant more than the other incidents such as the purported footprints, so I have reduced it to appear in the same paragraph.-gadfium 18:40, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
Good. Sabine's Sunbird talk 22:52, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Freaneymoa.jpg

Image:Freaneymoa.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 19:56, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Moa (3 votes) is collab for Feb/Mar 08

Nominated January 11, 2008;

Support:

1. Sabine's Sunbird talk 22:43, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
2. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 00:21, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
3. User:totnesmartin Totnesmartin (talk) 23:16, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Comments:

  • Interesting prehistoric family with a good fossil record and a great deal known about its biology. Sabine's Sunbird talk 22:43, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
There is a recent hard-to-get paper from some NZ or Aussie journal (Alcheringa or the likes) that argues a few points that might be considered. If the moa article is kept at genus level or above and doesn't get too detailed about species, there shouldnn't be major problems though.
I think the Lost World book should be accessible at least in part (Amazon?) Old Notornis papers are good for specimen data. I have a carbon copy of Oliver' NZ Birds which is unreliable but highly highly detailed.
Pro: Secondary literature is highly available (SAPE has much from diverse sources, Roy Soc NZ Transactions/Proceedings, Notornis). Dysmorodrepanis (talk) 00:01, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
I have Lost World, plus I also work some of the time in Te Papa and have access to their library. Sabine's Sunbird talk 00:43, 11 January 2008 (UTC)