Talk:Minuteman Project

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Minuteman Project article.
Article policies
Archives: 1


Contents

[edit] Making the page shorter

This article was very long. Part of that I believe is because there were sections for three other groups on the page. First, these groups should have their own page rather than making this even longer; and second, the content of the groups violated NPOV. They have been removed. Panfakes 13:12, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Delete

I propose this article be deleted, and The Minuteman Project Inc. moved here. Minuteman Civil Defense Corps is not called "Minuteman Project." Tim Long 02:05, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Agreed; done. Old title (The Minuteman Project Inc) was awkward, anyways, and Minuteman Project is the better-known name. ~ S0CO(talk|contribs) 21:24, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Indymedia is not a reliable source

From Wikipedia policy about self published sources [1]:

"Anyone can create a website or pay to have a book published, then claim to be an expert in a certain field. For that reason, self-published books, personal websites, and blogs are largely not acceptable as sources."

Indymedia appears to be a site in which anyone can upload an article, similar to Wikipedia but for news. I'm removing all information using this site as a reference. Please reply if you have a reason why it should be quoted. Panfakes 17:34, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

That's correct. Indynedia is just a big forum, and forums can never be used as sources, except for articles about themslves. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 06:19, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] POV

This article has become greatly anti-MMP. Clean-up is needed. CASCADIAHowl/Trail 02:03, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm trying to weed out the links and some unnecessary info. Ex: the same blog being linked 4-5 times. This article is long enough as it is. Panfakes 14:44, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
I have to agree. It seems rather suspicious that nearly 1/3 of this article accuses MMP of connections with neo-nazi organizations, with the only source being a single blog entry on an activist website. I think it would be safe to remove this section, or at least greatly shorten it unless other reputable sources can be located.
It would be better to say the ADL has claimed that there are neo-nazi connections, rather than asserting it as true with only a single blog entry on ADL's website as evidence.

The part about the Riddle guy saying his favorite activities include "ethnic cleansing" is suspicious. I checked out the source and there's nothing in it about a guy named riddle or the other stuff it talks about in that paragraph. Mrwnt10 02:31, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Major cleanup and restructuring needed

This article has increasingly become a depository for criticism of the Minuteman Project. I have attempted to reorganize (as opposed to deleting) critical content, but this is starting to get ridiculous. In order to meet the standards of Wikipedia, the use of reliable sources must take precedence over blog entries such as the ADL blog that has been cited so liberally in this article. Many slanderous statements have been published citing this blog entry, even some which the entry itself made no allusion to.

I think it is very telling that the Spanish-language version of this page is more disciplined and neutral than its English counterpart. Perhaps it should be the model that is followed?

The article does not even clearly state what the Minuteman Project does. "They monitor the border": What does that mean? Are they armed? Are they violent? Peaceful? Do they shoot at illegal immigrants? Report them? Take pictures? Have they been effective by any measure? Instead we are treated to detailed descriptions of related controversies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.205.143.247 (talk) 17:36, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Support section

I deleted the unsourced parts of the support section, not to eliminate validity to their organization but because simply-put, no verifiable source can be found to back them up. Also, there's no need to say that hispanics support them. Should we also say there are African-Americans, Vietnamese people, and two people from Finland in the group? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.27.213.170 (talk • contribs).

If we're going to go through and delete unsourced material, it would be best to do it throughout the entire article rather than simply erasing half of the support section (including parts that were adequately cited). To do otherwise would just add imbalance to what is already a very POV article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.15.226.72 (talk • contribs).

[edit] Why did someone remove sections criticizing Minutemen?

today the sections containing criticism of the group was removed, including allegations that some Minuteman videotaped a murder of an illegal immigrant. Some serious monkeying around is being done here. If this is allowed, then the article loses its NPOV and needs to be thrown out or entirely rewritten. Robert J Nagle 03:37, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

I've restored it, but it may beed further work to maintina neutrality. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 03:31, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Racist language

Today I saw that this article referred to a group of immigrants as "lolipop pushers". This is completely ridiculous. If we have to allow the racists to edit the page about themselves, we need to at least keep a close eye on what they're writing. I've already reverted it to NPOV, and would appreciate non-offensive language in the future. 68.101.77.56 22:31, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Watch the personal attacks. By calling the Minutemen racists, you're undermining your credibility, although in this case I completely agree that "lollipop pusher" is abhorrent and racist and should not be included. StaticElectric 02:13, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This article is a NPOV disaster

At least four or five sections that are anti-Minutemen, and one short section in favor. Either more positive coverage should be allowed, or the other stuff needs a serious look. Is there a way of filing a formal complaint regarding NPOV on Wikipedia? StaticElectric 02:18, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Not every group gets a lot of positive publicity. This article already has a "POV" tag on it. If you want to get more input I recommend filing a "request for comment". WP:RfC ·:· Will Beback ·:· 04:34, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] SPLC's views

Why is it that a group, the Southern Poverty Law Center here, is the final arbiter of what is or is not a "hate group"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.162.164.144 (talk) 22:43, 4 October 2007 (UTC)


Mainly because thats how they promote themselves. In fact SPLC is very biased. Case and point would be considering Ramos and Compean as a hate crime. http://www.splcenter.org/intel/news/item.jsp?site_area=1&aid=292 The problem is, they were never prosecuted on that nor as far as I know were they ever arrested on that. I've read the case, Congress has read and been involved with the case, both Democrats and Republicans have asked Bush to pardon, or revisit the case. Evidence pertinent to their defense was barred by the court. Since the arrest of the victim in this hate crime, for bringing drugs across the border again (3rd or 4th time), I think the courts are finally thinking of looking at the case again. This is SPLC's hate crime.

SPLC does this all the time. I've tried to use them as a resource but the truth is they don't cite facts for most of what they say, so its questionable to use them a source in my view. Wmb1957 19:00, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Did SPLC claim that Ramos and Compean were convincted of a hate crime? If not, it's mostly irrelevant. They are perfectly entitled to form an opinion at odds with the convinction. Whether they are a sufficiently noteable organisation for the opinion to be mentioned here, I'm not sure. Note that in any case, it's simply an opinion. We don't claim that Minuteman Project are a extreme nativist group simply that the SPLC consider them one. This is the same, for example, as to the way we don't say XYZ is a terrorist group, simply country ABC considers them one Nil Einne (talk) 18:55, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Counterprotests at Minuteman events

Counterprotestors against the Minutemen have included Anti-Racist Action, International ANSWER the Revolutionary Communist Party, the Progressive Labor Party, the International Socialist Organization, the AntiMinutemen Defendants, the Free People's Movement, the Bay Area Coalition to Fight the Minutemen, Coalicion Deporten a la Migra, the Brown Berets, the American Indian Movement, the Zapatista Solidarity Coalition, the Philadelphia Revolutionary Marxist Collective, the Sacramento Mexican American Political Association, the Brown Syndicate, the Brass Liberation Orchestra, the Chicano Consortium, Sacramento Food Not Bombs, anarchists, and other anti-conservative and anti-border activists. --Grondor (talk) 20:59, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Your point being? ~ S0CO(talk|contribs) 16:40, 1 February 2008 (UTC)