Talk:Messerschmitt Bf 109

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[edit] 109 F variants

According to Prien and Rodeike Messerschmitt Bf 109 F, G, & K series. 109 F variants didn't include an F-2/trop, nor were there any F-5s or F-6s mentioned in any of the source material they used; eg: Luftwaffe Loss Reports, and factory and RLM records. The F-4 reconnaissance variants, which have been called F-5s and F-6s, are listed as:

• F-4/R2 1x Rb 20/30 no radio.
• F-4/R3 1x Rb 50/30 no radio.
• F-4/R4 1x Rb 75/30 no radio.
• F-4/R8 1x Rb 50/30 or 1x Rb 75/30 with radio...

These findings are different to 109 F variants listed elsewhere. Minorhistorian (talk) 23:05, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

F-2/Trops did indeed exist. The Osprey title provides colour plates of all the Bf 109s of the major Aces of North Africa and the Mediterranean. Aces like Eduard Neumann, Albert Espenlaub, Gerhard Homuth are known to have flown F-2/Trops. Homuth flew an F-2 as late as February 1942.Dapi89 (talk) 22:37, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

It seems any "F" variant that included extra equipment was designated as an upgraded model. I caNt't find any literature that explains why. In deed the F-5 and F-6 were F-4 airframes plus and minus bits of equipmentDapi89 (talk) 14:19, 1 January 2008 (UTC).

F-5 and higher did not exist although it seems F-6 and F-8 were at least planned. F-5 was to be a recon but only one prototype in unknown configuration was built. F-5 to F-8 may have been unofficially reused for some special 109Fs like Galland's F-2 with additional cannons (reported as F-6/U). The F-2 trop may have not existed as a production model but they for sure existed as conversion. --Denniss (talk) 17:02, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

There were one or two F-2s with tropical filters, but none were built as such. Prien and Rodeike did an extensive search of all sorts of records, including factory and RLM reports and Luftwaffe loss records, as well as searching through 22,000 photos, and found no evidence of factory built F-2 trops. I would rather believe information based on in-depth primary research than some illustrations in the Osprey book (as good as they normally are).Minorhistorian (talk) 02:09, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

I was just using this as an example to say that they definitely existed, as I thought this fact was being questioned, not to claim that F-2 Trops were factory variants or indeed were production examples. Dapi89 (talk) 22:44, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 109 G section

I'm trying to tidy this up a little; some of the information is dubious (I have strong doubts about the "armoring of the radiators") and the writing's convoluted, plus there are some details missing in describing the sub-types.Minorhistorian (talk) 02:14, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Speed records

It is staden in the article that 755.14 km/h was the world record for a propeller driven aircraft until 1969. Was it really? Or was it just for single engined aircraft? And perhaps piston engine driven? I'm wondering because for example hte Dornier Do 335 article states higher speed, as does Tupolev Tu-95. These are both multi-engined and the tupolev is a turboprop, but propeller driven all the same. —Preceding unsigned comment added by UltimateDestroyerOfWorlds (talk • contribs) 21:05, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

The record attempts were made under controlled conditions over a set course and set altitude (I'm not sure of the exact conditions so I'll look them up some time); it's true that there were faster aircraft; the Supermarine Spiteful and XP-47J to name another two, but none of them attempted an official world record. And you're right, the CLASS C, GROUP 1 record is for Landplanes with piston engines rather than propeller driven. (Jane's All The World's Aircraft).Minorhistorian (talk) 22:51, 28 April 2008 (UTC)