Talk:Megalania

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Contents

[edit] Copied from this

Much of the article seems to be taken from here, verbatim: http://www.environment.sa.gov.au/parks/naracoorte/wonambi/animals/extinct/megalania.html

[edit] Still around

Some cryptozoologists think that the Megalania may still exist in the Australian Outback See this site [1]

Please be careful, citing information from Rex Gilroy, since he has been discredited on several matter ( e.g. Gimpy Pyramid discussion). Please cite additional sources as well.

[edit] Size

Megalina's size has been subject to considerable exaggeration, due to poor extrapolation of fragmentary remains. The most recent, reasonable estimates put it as a average length of 3.45 meters (11.3 feet) and a mass of up to 158kg (347.60lbs) Please see page 4. http://www.bio.usyd.edu.au/staff/swroe/Wroe2002review.pdf.

Whoever said that Megalania was 11.3 feet long and weighed 347.60lbs is stupid. Come on that's the size of a very large Komodo Dragon. The article for Megalania says it was 18-23 feet long and weighed 2.5-3 tons, this is very likely and hopefully it stay like that. I changed this.64.107.164.130 19:43, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
Unfortunately, it did not stay long like this. The reason is that such exaggerated claims may have been fashionable 10 years ago, but science being as it is, they have been refuted by now. The source is right above your post. What's more, the "20-foot Megalania" has apparently always been a mythical beast that roamed the works of scifi hack writers, the animal's true size being known since the 1970s! If you want to stick by your claim, please cite scientific sources refuting Wroe (2002) who may be "stupid" but certainly is a trained vertebrate paleontologist at the University of Sydney who as opposed to most people contributing to this article has had the advantage of handling and analyzing actual megalania bones.
V. prisca, on average, was the size of a very large Komodo Dragon. That still makes it the largest known lizard known to science. Dysmorodrepanis 02:47, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

I am sorry but it said in many websites that it was that big, I always thought it was that big, oh man, well I guess we have to have it like this.66.99.53.61 12:55, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

No problem at all. It is hard to always keep up-to-date with current research - I only stumbled across this issue by accident either... Also, the proportions of the megalania were different, it had a short tail and a more massive body. So while it may not have been that much longer than the Komodo Dragon, it was MUCH stockier and had a larger mass. If the Komodo Dragon was an excavator, the megalania was a huge Caterpillar D9 bulldozer, so to speak. Many people think about length, but it is bulk that really matters as it grows as per body length cubed. As you can see, adding perhaps 2 feet of length with a change in proportions will result in DOUBLE the weight of a Komodo Dragon. And that is indeed huge enough to bring down a diprotodont, but as opposed to the overestimates still lean enough to hunt faster prey. Indeed, while the lower estimates make the animal smaller, they make it actually more dangerous as one would have been able to outrun a ton-sized megalania. The new data turns it into a beast for which humans were a funny toy and a tasty snack; twice the weight of the average adult human and hardly any fat at all is still enough to secure it a top spot among the most fearsome predators since the extinction of the dinosaurs. Dysmorodrepanis 14:28, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Okay now the article says that Megalania is 15.3-20 feet long, hopeful that is the right size. I am sorry but 11.3 feet long sounds too small for a massive lizard, well to me anyway.64.107.164.130 18:19, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah would it be okay to keep the current size of Megalania like this. It be better.64.107.164.130 18:24, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I saw a picture of a skeleton of a Megalania in a website with a person in it and believe me, it didn't look like a "puny" 11.3 foot lizard.64.107.164.130 18:33, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Just try to keep in mind there is a big difference between average and maximum size. Very few Komodo Dragons exceed 50kg in the wild, (Indeed I think the largest one examined by Auffenberg was about 50kg), and they average much less then that, but there are still giants up to 100kg out there. So the maximum might very well have approached 400-500kg and 15f+, but would be very rare.

I think there is one problem. Wroe speaks about 3,4 as average length, but this was accoring to Hecht not average total length, but snout-vent-length, whith the smallest known adult specimens of 2,2m snout-vent-length. And this is a huge difference. The tail of adult komodos is nearly exactly 50% of the whole size. In Megalania it is very probable, that its tail was in proportion a bit shorter. That means that adult Megalanias were at least 4m in length, and as they were very heaily built, had surely a higher weight than a komodo of the same size. Such an animal would have a weight of about 250 kg. Longer specimens with a total length of 5,5m would be around 500kg or more.

[edit] Picture

I remember seeing picture of Megalania from a BBC TV show or something like that. If someone can get around to uploading it and figuring out the copyright issues, that would be great. Bibliomaniac15 19:59, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Name

It's interesting to find out that Megalania has been renamed Varanus. Does that mean Megalania is now the common name? Excuse me, but I have an interest in this fiddly little nomenclature stuff.--Gazzster 22:32, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Most (all?) scientists do incllude this species in the same genus as all other monitor lizards, Varanus. I guess megalania is left as a common name since everyone still uses it, but that's probably due to ignorance of the current situation. It would be like using Brontosaurus as the common name for Apatosaurus, or Megalodon as the common name for Carcharocles megalodon. True in that it's "common", but it's actually more of a "common mistake".Dinoguy2 22:00, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you--Gazzster 22:24, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Not to get too anal here, but despite the statement of various herpetologists (who are notorious lumpers as it is. See Eleutherodactylus, or Anolis for examples) that Megalania should be sunk into Varanus, none of them ever do it. The latest info that I've obtained on this comes from Molnar's 2004 book on Megalania (well worth the read). As it stands, the name seems to still be controversial, but unresolved. - Jura 23:43, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

And so the name should stay! Come on, does anyone seriously feel comfortanle saying Varanus prisca?It's not a monitor, it's an icon!--Gazzster 02:04, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, it is a monitor (in the sense that it's still in the family Varanidae). On the one hand, I agree the name has iconic value and will remain in the popular lexicon as "Megalania," much how the species named for Carcharocles megalodon has become symbolic of the animal. That said, from a taxonomic standpoint, the name should have some scientific credibility in order to stay. If we ever get enough material, or find someone willing to work with what's there and give us a thorough description of the creature's anatomy, it will be easier to determine whether, or not it's a valid genus. Currently, the best thing to do (IMO) would be to have herpetologists agree to elevate the subgenera to generic status. This would alleviate some of the bloating in Varanus (which has at least as much variation as that seen in Felidae [and that's broken up into 18 genera]), and hopefully reduce that lumping urge. Jura 21:03, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Name Part 2

I thought that "Megalania" meant "butcher" or "killer." Do we have a source of it meaning "strider"?--Mr Fink 15:45, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Both the Museum of Victoria [[2]] and the site of the Naracoorte Caves, South Australia [[3]] give the meaning as 'giant ancient butcher'. So yes, we need a source for 'strider'.--Gazzster 22:23, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

It does mean "giant butcher" (prisca means "first") but it is, interestingly, feminine. The ordinary Latin word for butcher is lanius, but I assume they made it feminine so people wouldn't think it was a giant relative of Lanius (the shrike). Vultur 01:46, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Sorry folks, but despite the popularity of "giant butcher," it is not the correct meaning for the name. It really does mean "giant strider", or "runner." When I put that change in, it had the reference to back it up (Owen, 1859). If one checks the bottom of the first page of Owen's description, one will find the etymology behind the name. Owen wanted to make it evident that this giant lizard was not waterbound. Jura —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.64.127.45 (talk) 23:06, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

"Lania" is the feminine of butcher, in Latin, but, apparently, the "lania" in "Megalania" is apparently a modified form of "plaina," which is Greek for "to roam about," as explained in the first footnote here [4]--Mr Fink 20:56, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Ah, thanks for the clarification. Also thanks for getting the actual Latin in there. Getting ahold of the proper characters (no choice given that Owen didn't give an english version of the Latin) looked to be a pain in the butt. Jura 00:25, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
That's because it was Greek, and not Latin, in fact. If it was Latin, then it would have indeed meant "Great/giant (female) butcher"--Mr Fink 00:48, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Argh! Right, my bad there. Jura 01:08, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Name Part 3

Should we mention Megalania often being mistranslated as "great butcher," or no?--Mr Fink (talk) 17:11, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, given how prevalent the latter meaning shows up in popular descriptions of Megalania, I think it would be a good idea to add that in. I threw in a simple description. If you could add the necessary Greek and Latin characters to flesh it out, that would be great. Jura (talk) 02:06, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Megalania Weight Estimates

Just an FYI for editors. The recent 1,940kg estimate could initially be viewed as contentious. So to avoid an "editing war" over the size section, I've included a direct quote from Ralph Molnar's 2004 book on Megalania.

From page 127:

"...the Lau and Frost specimens (SVL estimated at 2.2 to 2.4 meters) seem to be close to the average, to judge from the sizes of the vertebrae held in the Queensland Museum. Blob's corrected equation gives a mass of about 320kg for a 2 meter (SVL) individual. The largest specimen (QM F2942) gives an estimated body length of 3.8 meters, which in turn gives a mass of approximately 1,940kg."

Jura (talk) 18:01, 8 June 2008 (UTC)