Talk:Mauricio Rua
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First UFC Fight
We need some info on who he is gonna fight next.
[edit] Fightsport.com cite
A black belt in Muay Thai is something I've never heard of before, and having a fightsport.com cite to back up the claim just makes it more incredulous. Fightsport.com is notorious for not just posting bad rumors but blatantly false information. I'm tagging that sentence with {{fact}}, and am considering removing it altogether if it isn't properly cited after too long. hateless 08:04, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
- Agreed... I've followed suit for every other Fightsport reference on Wikipedia. east.718 at 12:11, September 24, 2007
- There is no such thing as a black belt in Muay Thai. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.184.81.246 (talk) 18:47, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Griffin Fight
Okay, in the interest of avoiding an edit war (fat chance, it seems...), let's discuss my specific complaints here:
- 1. "...the popular winner of the Ultimate Fighter 1,..." Unnecessary commentary, adds nothing to an encyclopedic entry.
- 2. "Griffin, who had suffered a TKO loss in a prior fight to Keith Jardine, saw the opportunity to fight Shogun as a gateway to top contender status for the UFC Light Heavyweight title." Who cares why Forest took the fight? This entry is about Shogun, not Forest.
- 3. "Rua narrowly lost the first two rounds according to judges' scorecards." Technically, this isn't really possible, and I'm not even sure it's true. If he lost, it would have been 10-9, which isn't really "narrowly" in terms of MMA scoring. I've seen landslide round victories result in a 10-9 from all three judges. I'm also not certain he even did lose both rounds on all three judges' scorecards. The listed source doesn't really make clear if the author saw the actual scorecards or if he's just speculating that Griffin did win them in his eyes. If it's the former, then that's fine, but I'd prefer a better source for the actual scorecards. If it's the latter, then we can't include that speculation in Shogun's article.
- 4. "...and Griffin on the verge of certain victory,..." See #3. Unless we have the official judges' scorecards to show that he'd definitely won the first two rounds, nothing is certain (see Hamill v. Bisping). I'm also not sure why this statement is really necessary for the encyclopedia entry.
- 5. "The submission was decisive but unnecessary as Griffin was ahead in points and would have won had the fight gone the distance." The third time this is mentioned. That alone should be enough to eject it from the article, at least in an effort to keep the article more concise, not to mention the problems listed above with knowing the "official" round scoring.
...that's about it for now.Tuckdogg 00:15, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps some people are better suited to fixing blatant vandalism than judging what is relevant, factual material suitable for a bio entry... To address the above complaints, I'm open to suggested copy that actually provides the key elements of the fight in a descriptive way. This entry is about the UFC 76 fight between Rua and Griffin within the context of Rua's professional career. We could simply reduce Rua's biography to a list of his name, nickname, birthplace and date of birth and show the standard MMA table outlining all of Rua's fight results if contributors are not allowed to describe his fights in detail or, in other sections, provide supplemental information -- where do you draw the line? Providing context around the participants involved in a fight adds value to the entry in my opinion. I feel that one can appreciate the circumstances in and around both the fight and fighters when there is some descriptive information provided. Clearly you have a different opinion. I can accept that copy can be better articulated, but the edits and reversals I've seen relating to the Griffin fight haven't really been an improvement. Regarding point #3, please suggest a better way to communicate to readers that the fight was indeed close in the first two rounds (as was evident to anyone having watched the fight, and which has been written in many publications), and that numerous sources state that the rounds were scored in favor of Griffin by the judges. It really does not seem unreasonable to describe how and why the rounds were close and in what manner Rua lost them -- and the fight -- to Griffin.
Acesfull11 02:31, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
- Who said you're not allowed to add context? The problem with the way it's currently written is that, stylistically, it's unencyclopedic. Encyclopedia entries are not meant to be filled with flowing, highly descriptive prose that is injected with the author's opinions (even if many others share those opinions as well). All that's needed is a concise, neutral description of what happened and why it's important to Rua. Try this:
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- "In his UFC debut, Rua took on The Ultimate Fighter 1 winner Forrest Griffin. Widely regarded as the top light heavyweight in the world at the time of the fight, Shogun was considered a heavy favorite to win(citation). The first two rounds were relatively close, with most commentators giving Griffin a slight edge (citation, possibly even to the recent MMA Weekly article where Rua's camp argued that Rua should have won rounds 1 & 2 to support it being close). By the third round, a visibly exhausted Rua was no longer able to keep pace against the more aggressive Griffin and repeatedly gave up his back while scrambling on the ground (citation needed!). With only 15 seconds remaining in the fight, Griffin secured a rear naked choke, forcing Rua to tap out (citation).
- And there you go.Tuckdogg 13:09, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
- I agree with your approach Tuckdogg. One thing I want to comment on is that perhaps we shouldn't say the first two rounds were close, we should say something more conservative and citable like "neither fighter established dominance" or "neither fighter completely dominated". hateless 09:08, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
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- I like that better. Change made! Tuckdogg 14:09, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
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