Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (Kings of France)

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[edit] Naming

Per discussion on Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (names and titles), three reform issues have arisen, with support seeming to go for :

  • 1) Using most common name when possible
  • 2) Avoiding redundant "of Country" when possible
  • 3) Replacing "of country" with "King of Country" to avoid various confusions

Each has different supports. 3) has twice the support as its opposite, so probably has to be implemented to keep the MoS respectable. The two seem to have support too and are enshrined in bigger wikipedia policy, but there's little way of measuring support for it so far.

Anyway, I'm laying out a list of the French kings. Monarchs who need dabbed have been left with a space (the assumption is that King of would replace it per the Noel's survey), but seeing the list might help provoke discussion into formulating particular guidelines for French kings. Regarding some of the Louis, the main problem with just leaving them are the Dukes of Bavaria. Now I usually come across those guys as Ludwig, not Louis; unless I've been living in some cut-off world, these Dukes shouldn't be an issue. Anyways, all can be discussed:

[edit] Kings of France, the French, etc

Post-Hugh Capet

[edit] Comment

The Polish MOS suggests ordinals with nicknames, so to remain consistent across Wikipedia Charles VIII the Affable, Louis II the Stammerer, (etc) would be suitable, but less intuitive. I'm not sure which my preference is. On a personal note, I'm not very familiar with the French kings, and become quite lost with a list of ordinals; seeing the nicknames here, I am able to piece my knowledge together much more easily. (In other words, they make more sense for me) Gwinva (talk) 08:32, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

That's probably the way it is for most. On a kind of test vote, Talk:Casimir I of Poland, PMAnderson rejected Casimir I the Restorer in favour of Casimir I, with other edits suggesting a favoring of Casimir the Restorer. SO getting the role of ordinals sorted in prolly one of the first things we should try to reach consensus on. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 08:36, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
This list omits the Merovingians, who should be part of any systematic reform here. I strongly oppose most of these proposed moves, almost all of them past Hugh Capet (which I support), as artificial and contrary to usage. For example, I know Louis XI under that name, which should be disambiguated pre-emptively to Louis XI of France for reasons explained elsewhere. Louis the Prudent merely produces a reaction of "Which one is that?" Please check; I suspect Louis the Spider is at least as common.
The Carolingians are indeed commonly known under their nicknames, because that is the traditional way to disambiguate them. Odo, however, is probably known, when known, as Odo, because he has always been unambiguous. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 17:18, 24 January 2008 (UTC)