Talk:Lyme disease

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[edit] Too long

I've tagged this article with {{verylong}} as it is extremly large (about 91 kilobytes long). I think we need some more splitting or to delete some parts of the article. Any suggestions? --AAA! (AAAA) 12:40, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

  • By far the longest subsection is References (31 kilobytes), distantly followed by Treatment (7 kb), Diagnosis (7 kb), Advancing Immunology Research (5 kb), Epidemiology (4 kb), History (4 kb), Controversy (4 kb), Prevention (3 kb), Transmission (3 kb), and Symptoms (3 kb).
The depth and coverage of this article overall seems about right to me; it is also very well referenced with over 170 references. Many subjects in medicine are always going to be large and complicated, especially the controversial ones such as Lyme Disease.
I think this article needs a bit of careful restructuring, instead of shortening. If you strip out the references, the article is only 60 kilobytes long. I'd agree there are some sub-topics (e.g. Treatment and Diagnosis), which are perhaps covered in slightly too much detail, and could be a little shortened by summarizing and moving some content to separate in-depth articles.
The major criticism I'd make of this article is the overview at the start. It's not as readable or helpful as it could be; it would benefit from being simplified and re-written. What do you think?
--Neparis 18:04, 24 July 2007 (UTC)(Neparis)
Agree with Neparis. The "overview" as it is now, is a biology reference. There is no encyclopedic general introduction or summary. If kilobytes are the standard of article length than obviously something is very wrong with the standards. Are we squeezing articles so they fit better an sellable CDs? If that is the case I'll go back to "shovelware" CD Encyclopedias I stashed away.Cuvtixo 12:56, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

On that same note, I took out a section about "famous people possibly infected" the gist of which was that George W. Bush got bit by a tick while out for a ride a year ago. Nothing personal against Bush - it just seemed out of place in an already lengthy article. Narco 09:25, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What is the right length?

Can we reach a consensus on what is the "right" length for this article? I posted a few thoughts, as well as a list of sections ordered by decreasing length (here). The longest section was and still is References (31 kilobytes). The Treatment section is perhaps a bit too long. Perhaps some content could be split off into a separate article? Ditto for the environmental countermeasures recently added to the Prevention section.

However, I think there are good reasons to avoid over-shortening this article. Many subjects in medicine are always going to be large and complicated, especially the controversial ones such as Lyme Disease. The Lyme Disease article is shorter than articles on other controversial medical topics such as AIDS (112 kilobytes), Schizophrenia (102 kilobytes) and Asperger Syndrome (92 kilobytes). Nonetheless this article continues to grow as other editors add even more new material, e.g. recent edits by Trees123 and 69.120.212.35. Please share your thoughts here and say which sections (if any) you think should be shortened or split off into separate articles. Neparis 15:05, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

If kilobytes are the standard of article length than obviously something is very wrong with the standards. Are we squeezing articles so they fit better an sellable CDs? If that is the case I'll go back to "shovelware" CD Encyclopedias I stashed away. Cuvtixo 12:58, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Difficulty in Diagnosing.

Here is a lead, based on a ABC documentary, about a person who was finally diagnosed with Lyme's disease.

He was tested more than 4 times, no proof.

He was admitted to hospital emergency suffering from panic attacks, heart and lung problems without being diagnosed.

Eventually a lyme's disease specialist was able to diagnose, after so, so many tests that proved othewise.

It is important to ensure that the article suggests the "extreme" difficulty in testing.

--Caesar J. B. Squitti : Son of Maryann Rosso and Arthur Natale Squitti 15:27, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes-- absolutely this article really does a disservice to many suffering patients.. Current Lyme diagnostic tests are considered to be inadequate.. They do not use band 31-- which is the Outer Surface Protein A OspA marker on the spirochete. THis is curious since OspA WAS used in the Steere/Yale/Smithkline Lyme vaccine-- meaning that it IS an identifying marker for the disease. Attorney general blumenthals investigation is looking into the possibility of collusion here and a discussion of this investigation would be useful here. ---freyfaxi

Most cases of Lyme don't answer to your characterisation. There are a lot of people with vague symptoms who will eventually have a false-positive test result to some poorly-indicated unreliable test. "Specialists" are the worst in this regard. JFW | T@lk 14:52, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

There are alot, there are some, and there are others; we do agree that 'testing' is unreliable, and 'specialists' are anything but ?

--Caesar J. B. Squitti : Son of Maryann Rosso and Arthur Natale Squitti 03:29, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't have a dog in this fight, but from a medical point of view...The OspA protein is produced while the B. burgdorferi is residing in the tick, but rapidly diminshes (even extinguishes) once the tick is exposed to warm mammalian blood. This produces a couple of problems, the first being that the vaccine is only useful for a short time (perhaps less than a few weeks) after administration. Secondly, because OspA is rapidly downregulated once inside a human host, it would not be useful for determining if there is a current infection in an animal host. (ref: Sherris 4ed. pp434-435). The only caveat to this, is that Anti-OspA antibodies do have some cross reactivity to human HLAs. Current guidelines say that the presence of EM is diagnostic, but can be followed up with IgM blot(2of3 presumptive) followed by a IgG blot(5of10 diagnostic), but the proteins that show up on these tests are also proteins found in other bacteria. I hope that helps a little. BruceD270 00:48, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
An important point that should be stressed about the vaccine is that the OspA antibody kills B. burgdorferi within the tick midgut as it feeds on the vaccinated individual's blood, before transmission of the bacteria from the tick to the human occurs (see Sherris p. 437, 4th ed). NighthawkJ 07:55, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lyme Funding

Lyme treatment funding is relevant to patients. Please do not delete this without a discussion. I will report administrators who delete this section without adequate discussion.. Thank you. Freyfaxi 19:27, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Whether or not funding issues are relevant to patients is, well, irrelevant. The question is "Are funding issues encyclopedic? -- MarcoTolo 19:54, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
The Lyme Funding and Treatment Controversy section is not, at it stands, encyclopedic. In particular, the section runs afoul of WP:OR (also the no synthesis portion) since it suggests links between individual researchers and a "treatment controversy" without citing any references to support the claim of a connection - the refs mentioned only support the claim that so-and-so was funded or was appointed to X position, not the central assertion that a controversy exists (or that these individuals are associated with one). The lack of WP:RS sources to back the claims made here also raises WP:BLP issues for the individuals named. Unless these problems can be dealt with ASAP, this section needs to be pulled. -- MarcoTolo 20:08, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi, MarcoTolo:

Your WP:OR, WP:SYN and NPOV critiques of the Lyme Disease Funding Controversy are flawed.

WP OR is defined as: Original research (OR) is a term used in Wikipedia to refer to UNPUBLISHED facts, arguments, concepts, statements, or theories. The term also applies to any unpublished analysis or synthesis of published material that appears to advance a position — or, in the words of Wikipedia's co-founder Jimmy Wales, would amount to a "novel narrative or historical interpretation."

FACT: The Lyme Disease Association, a nationally recognized and frequently quoted patient advocacy group publicly names a number of scientists (some included in this article) as being involved in research, funding and patent ownership conflicts of interest. By excluding LDA and ILADS' positions, this article is NPOV, and caters almost exclusively to the offensive biowar scientists in the "Steere" camp, while giving no credence to field doctors in the ILADS camp.

FACT: The President of ILADS has publicly stated that he believes Lyme Disease is a bioweapon. The systematic deletion of numerous published references in this article to Lyme bioweapons researchers, their membership in the Epidemic Intelligence Unit, and their work on anthrax, bubonic plague, tularemia and Rickettsia in this article violates NPOV and leads readers to erroneously believe that Lyme researchers have no financial or research interests in the lucrative offensive bioweapons complex.

FACT: Mention of the critically acclaimed mainstream book Lab 257 was continuously deleted to the point of vandalism. Footnotes citing mainstream papers that ran stories of Lyme disease research in BSL-3 labs are systematically deleted here. A noted Lyme activist had a widely reported showdown with Plum island oficials, and yet all mention of these conflicts is deleted and covered up here. NPOV is suffering and the article is one-sided, and damages wikipedia's reputation.


FACT: The connection between biowarfare budgets and Lyme researchers is well established in numerous online and published media reports on BSL-3 and BSL-4 labs. The thesis is also published in a well known book, Lab 257, and in the the article, "Lyme is a Biowarfare Issue" by Lyme activist Elena Cook which asserts the connection with clarity and many fotnotes. Sorry, but you can't claim that I have engaged in original research on this one-- so many articles have already been published. Omission of all mention of these PUBLISHED points of view here egregiously violates NPOV.


FACT: Attorney General Blumenthal is investigating conflicts of interest in Lyme research. The scant discussion of this case is a violation of NPOV.


FACT: There is not mention of the class action lawsuits surrounding the damaging Lymerix vaccine, and the questionable history revolving around this vaccine. There is no mention of the elimination of band 31 OspA in the diagnostic test, while it was being used in the vaccine. This fails NPOV.

Nice try but.....

This article is one of the most egregious violations of NPOV because it has thus far almost completely ignored patient groups and the Attorney General of Connecticut, who have stated clearly that they believe there is evidence of a financial, moral and research conflict of interest with respect to Lyme disease.

Failure to include these published and sourced points of view from the patient community in both ILADS, the LDA and in the wider media violates Wikipedia's sacred policy of NPOV..

You WP SYN comment is addressed by the footnote sourcing the LDA. I will be adding more footnotes, and I expect consideration.

You can't delete this information on the basis of flawed legalistic claims -- if you do, I will challenge it.

69.120.212.35 16:45, 22 August 2007 (UTC) -Freyfaxi —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.120.212.35 (talk) 16:48, August 22, 2007 (UTC)

First of all, thank you for providing a reference (the 2001 LDA position paper) - while I have issues with the document, it does alleviate some of my OR concerns. Secondly, please assume good faith. To address your other statements, I'll use a number list format so we can keep track of the discussion:
1.The President of ILADS has publicly stated that he believes Lyme Disease is a bioweapon. I'm assuming you're referring to Raphael Stricker - can you please provide a reference for this statement? A Google search provided many third-hand "Stricker said X" links, but no reliable source that I can find directly quotes Dr. Stricker.
2. Mention of the critically acclaimed mainstream book Lab 257 was continuously deleted to the point of vandalism. Regardless of it's level of acclaim, if the book meets the reliable source standard, I see no reason not to include a citation, provided WP:WEIGHT is considered.
3. The connection between biowarfare budgets and Lyme researchers.... Omission of all mention of these PUBLISHED points of view here egregiously violates NPOV. Not exactly. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a collection of everything that has ever been published on a topic. Again, if citations meet the WP:RS criteria for inclusion (without running afoul of the Wikipedia core policies), they should be included.
4. Attorney General Blumenthal is investigating conflicts of interest in Lyme research. Okay, but again, statements like this need to be attributed to a reliable source.
5. There is not mention of the class action lawsuits... Okay, so briefly mention them (with citations, of course).
6. I will be adding more footnotes, and I expect consideration. Of course.
I will refrain from editing this section for a day or two to allow you time to provide sources for your additions. -- MarcoTolo 17:36, 22 August 2007 (UTC)


in reference to: 16:03, 5 January 2008 89.159.157.45 (Talk) (89,747 bytes) (→Controversy - The three paragraphs delete are factually incorrect and speculative, bordering paranoid.)


The controversy section contains large sections of text that are far from impartial if not factually incorrect. The paragraphs quoted below (#3-7) should be removed, as they are not neutral and irresponsible. As mentioned above, these paragraphs are in violation of Wikipedia policy due to the fact that they employ, "unpublished facts, arguments, speculation, and ideas; and contain unpublished analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to advance a single position". Many references are lacking and some that are included are misrepresented. The term “biodefense” has erroneously been replaced by “bioweapons” intentionally implying some secret sinister plot associated with the research. The tex leads the uninformed reader to believe that government funding is menacing and clandestine, when NIH (National Institutes of Health) grants are nearly the only source of funds for biomedical research. Inclusion of these paragraphs do a disservice to the readers by presenting propaganda, conspiracy suggestions bordering on ridiculous, and intentional errors as fact. See specific comments below in CAPITAL letters:

"In recent years prominent American Lyme researchers of the camp that denies, or belittles the importance of, Lyme as a chronic neurological infectious disease have received substantial federal government funding for BIODEFENSE research (WELL-KNOWN AS ONE OF THE ONLY FORMS OF FUNDING FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH). For example, Alan Barbour, credited with first culturing the Lyme bacteria, and whose B31 strain became the basis of all subsequent diagnostic tests for the disease, was recently placed in charge of the multi-million dollar new BIODEFENSE research center at UCI. [105] Similarly, Jorge Benach, whose team collected the batch of ticks from which Barbour's strain was isolated, was chosen in 2004 as recipient for a $3 million BIODEFENSE research grant. [106] And Mark Klempner, author of a famous study contending that persisting symptoms in Lyme patients treated with antibiotics were unlikely due to chronic infection, was recently placed in charge of the 1.6 billion-dollar NATIONAL BIOCONTAINMENT LABORATORY complex at Boston University."

THIS NEXT PARAGRAPH MAKES NO LOGICAL SENSE, IS WHOLLY LACKING SUBSTANTIATION OR REFERENCES, AND IS SIMPLY LUDICROUS IF NOT OUTRIGHT PARANOID. AGAIN, RESEARCHERS ARE NOT WORKING ON “BIOWEAPONS” RESEARCH, RATHER “BIODEFENSE” RESEARCH. THIS TERM IS JUST AN ALL INCLUSIVE PHRASE THAT HAS BEEN USED RECENTLY TO COVER THE EMERGING INFECTIOUS DISEASE AND DEFENSE AGAINST POSSIBLE BIOLOGICAL ATTACK FIELDS – MOSTLY IN AN EFFORT TO HELP BOOST FUNDING IN INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH, AN AREA THAT HAS BEEN HURTING LATELY DUE TO BUDGET CUTS. “The selection of leading Lyme researchers for such senior posts in BIODEFENSE research, coupled with the fact that many of them have a long history of such work (REFERENCE????), which pre-dates the expansion of this field after the 2001 anthrax attacks, has fuelled accusations that Lyme disease is intimately connected with biological warfare science (REFERENCE???), and that military objectives have influenced these scientists to obfuscate the facts surrounding this disease, to the detriment of patients(REFERENCE???).”

"The unearthing, in recent years, of a number of documents referring to the study of Lyme disease in BSL-4 (Biosafety Level 4) labs, the very highest level of biocontainment which is generally reserved for airborne biowarfare organisms such as weaponised anthrax, has only served to stoke suspicion further. (An example of one such piece of evidence is the section on biocontainment in a 2003 letter from the director of a California Health Department concerning a bid for a BIODEFENSE grant.[107]" THIS LETTER CLEARLY IS JUST STATING BROADLY WHAT RESEARCH AT THE NEW REGIONAL LABORATORY WILL HELP RESEARCHERS TO PREVENT. IT IS UNFORTUNATE THAT THIS STATEMENT WAS MADE IMMEDIATELY AFTER A COMMENT ABOUT THE BSL-4 LABORATORY. THESE NEW CENTERS ARE BEING CREATED BOTH TO EXPAND THE NUMBER OF PLACES WHERE BSL-3 AND BSL-4 AGENTS CAN BE WORKED ON, AS WELL AS, OFFER CENTERS THAT FACILITATE COLLABORATION.

"Mark Klempner, Alan Barbour, Allen Steere, David Dennis, Edward McSweegan, Philip Baker, Captain Paul Mead and many others who have had a profound influence on Lyme disease diagnostic and treatment policy have a history of association with BIODEFENSE research in the past(REFERENCE???), and/or with the Epidemic Intelligence Service, founded in the 1950's as an elite biowarfare think tank." THE WAY THIS IS STATED LEADS THE READER TO THINK THAT THE EIS WAS FORMED TO MAKE WEAPONS. INSTEAD IT WAS CREATED AFTER THE KOREAN WAR BROUGHT THE THREAT OF BIOLOGICAL WARFARE TO THE ATTENTION OF THE UNITED STATES. AS A RESULT, CDC'S EPIDEMIC INTELLIGENCE SERVICE (EIS) TRAINING PROGRAM WAS STARTED TO IMPROVE OUR ABILITY TO DETECT AND IDENTIFY OUTBREAKS OF INFECTIOUS DISEASE.

"The denial, by the United Kingdom government during a parliamentary debate[108] THIS REFERENCE POINTS TO A WEBSITE IDENTIFYING LYME DISEASE RESEARCHERS IN THE UK, that research into Lyme disease had taken place during a time when the UK's top biowarfare facility Porton Down was indeed studying it, further stoked this controversy. The work at Porton Down has since been confirmed, being noted for example, by the British delegation to an international conference on bioterrorism [109]. THIS WEBSITE ONLY MENTIONS LYME DISEASE IN A SECTION DEALING WITH GIS WORK WHICH IS SEEKING TO MODEL IN COMPUTER PROGRAMS THE POSSIBLE RISK FOR VECTOR-BORNE DISEASE. THE QUOTE FROM THE REFERENCE IS, “An example of a predictive modelling study being carried out at HPA Porton Down relates to the sheep tick, which can transmit a range of vector-borne diseases, including Congo Crimean Haemorrhagic Fever, Lyme Fever, ehrlichiosis, babesiosis and tick-borne encephalitis.” THIS REFERENCE IS MISREPRESENTED IN THE WIKIPEDIA ARTICLE TEXT IN A MANNER THAT IMPLIES THAT THE AUTHOR MEANS TO SKEW THE READERS INTERPRETATION INTENTIONALLY.

I am simply trying to better Wikipedia's article on Lyme Disease by keeping it rational and impartial, and avoid it becoming a site for advertising of extreme opinions on either "side".

--CharantiTalk 19:38, 7 January 2008 (UTC)--89.159.157.45 (talk) 19:36, 7 January 2008 (UTC)--Charanti (talk) 13:33, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

It seems that the "Lyme funding and treatment controversy" section is redundant with the "Controversy" section, and thus I suggest it be removed. --CharantiTalk 08:57, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

The sentence about Richard Blumenthal should be retained and moved into the "Controversy" section. I agree that everything else in the "Lyme funding and treatment controversy" section should be removed. In fact, I feel that the several paragraphs decribing the connections to biowarfare/biodefense should be completed deleted from both sections. MarcoTolo's original concerns (see above) have still not been sufficiently addressed after four months of waiting. NighthawkJ (talk) 18:24, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
I think Charanti has improved the section, partly addressing MarcoTolo's concerns, but I agree there is more work to do. However, I think it is appropriate for there to be brief explanation of the connection to biodefence (not "biowarfare"), which is significant and can be properly referenced to reliable sources. - Neparis (talk) 04:30, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I made the changes in lieu of deleting the paragraphs completely, as I observed that the paragraphs were replaced quickly when I tried that in the past. I agree that the paragraphs could/should be deleted - making there appear to be controversy about the source of some Lyme disease funding being biodefense grants seems to just be perpetuating an idea that a handful of people had that shows a general ignorance for how all infectious disease research is funded in the U.S. --CharantiTalk 17:17, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

The other problem with devoting so much space to the Lyme funding-biodefense connection is that it gives readers the impression that it is the dominant issue in the Lyme controversies. This is far from reality. Articles in the news media about the Lyme controversies mention connections of researchers to the pharmaceutical and insurance industry, the antitrust case in Connecticut, and problems with the Lyme vaccine. However, the major figures in the Lyme wars have never mentioned anything (to the best of my knowledge) about connections of Lyme to biodefense. For these reasons, inclusion of such a lengthy description of the biodefense issue appears to violate WP:undue weight. It would be helpful to see the actual quote that Freyfaxi claims was made by the president of ILADS about B. burgdorferi being a bioweapon. NighthawkJ (talk) 19:11, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

We have waited for some time for discussion on this section. As no opposition has been encountered I have begun trimming the section. I began by removing the more slanted and unsupported parts. I still believe that the second "controversy" section should just be removed, perhaps one or two sentences could be moved from it to the first section. --CharantiTalk 09:58, 1 February 2008 (UTC)


Undid Charanti delete. Funding details of key Lyme researchers restored to provide factual reference for opening statement. Freyfaxi (talk) 20:08, 18 February 2008 (UTC)freyfaxi

[edit] Imaging

"The average time from symptom onset to diagnosis in these patients is about 4 years due to efforts by the CDC and infectious disease community's to cover-up the illness"

where did this come from? there is no source and the info does seem a bit exotic. I reconmmend deletion i no reliable source for this information can be found. Weeddude (talk) 07:36, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

In this edit. I'm not aware of any evidence to support such a claim, but I think we should wait a while to see if other editors can provide any citations to support it. I've tagged it "citation needed". If nobody responds, it should be removed. It is interesting that the edit seems to have been reviewed by User:MarcoTolo, who did not revert it in this edit. - Neparis (talk) 00:36, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Subclinical prevalence of Borrelia

It may be interesting to note that according to some studies, only a small percentage of people who get infected (or are at least tested positive for antibodies to the bacteria) do not seem to get any signs of Lyme disease (including myself), and that infection may thus be much more prevalent than previously thought.

I have found a lot of links to research on this topic (up to 1999) at http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Oasis/6455/latent-biblio.html 145.97.200.25 (talk) 14:33, 12 March 2008 (UTC)


One example of an interesting article: http://www.springerlink.com/content/gq62m5p71184014p/

Abstract A cross-sectional sero-epidemiological study was conducted on forestry workers, a high risk population for Lyme borreliosis. The prevalence of seropositive forestry workers (indirect immuno fluorescence assay) is 15.2% (n = 211). Almost 70% of participants reported a history of tick bite. Among districts, high seroprevalences were observed in Fontainebleau and Rambouillet; two sites of high risk for Lyme borreliosis. However, clinical prevalence of the disease is very low. During the investigation no active Lyme borreliosis was observed. Thus, asymptomatic infection predominates. Borrelia burgdorferi - Ile de France - Ixodes ricinus - Seroprevalence 145.97.200.25 (talk) 14:48, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

I cited a paper that makes a similar point about Swedish orienteers: PMID 9556169. It also discusses other studies where similar findings were observed in European populations. I was unable to access the article cited above since I wasn't willing to pay for it. Asymptomatic infections in U.S. populations are already described in the article. NighthawkJ (talk) 23:53, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Interesting point, but it must be pointed out that not all ticks are infected; that there are about 3 dozen Borrelia species, and only about 1/3 of these are known to be pathogenic; and that each pathogenic species may have varieties with various degrees of virulence. And symptomatology might not occur until after 10 years past the tick bite. Therefore, high seroprevalence and low clinical manifestations should never be interpreted to mean that it is relatively safe to be bitten by a tick.Bnk wkpd (talk) 19:09, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] History of Lyme Disease

When and how was it discovered? Dan (talk) 16:11, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

There's a section on the history of Lyme disease in the article. In short, several disease manifestations of what we now call Lyme disease had been examined primarily in Europe since the 1880s, with the benefits of penicillin therapy first demonstrated in the 1940s. In the 1970s, the examination of a cluster of cases of childhood arthritis in Lyme, Connecticut, brought to the attention of authorities by two concerned mothers, eventually led to the complete description of the disease and the isolation of the bacteria. NighthawkJ (talk) 04:52, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
I was surprised to find no reference to any of these subjects here regarding the history of Lyme disease in the United States...
I also checked the Lyme disease controversy article.
Also interesting, the AP reported about the US gov't acknowledging Lyme disease as a biological weapon and there's no mention of that here either.[1] Corey Salzano (talk) 19:19, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
There's a lengthy discussion in the archives concerning the removal of these topics from a previous version of the Lyme disease article [2]. NighthawkJ (talk) 01:51, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
What I found was hardly a discussion about facts, but thanks for pointing me in the right direction. Corey Salzano (talk) 20:13, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

I have restored some of the information about Plum Island and the Japanese biowar research on Borrelia conducted prior to and during the Second World War. I have removed Nighthawk J's misleading edits in which he violates NPOV regulations by giving his own interpretation of the significance of Lyme scientists' biowarfare background, which he seeks to downplay massively.

In fact, his edit was completely misleading as it seeks to portray the issue as simply one of funding, distracting from the fact that a disproportionate number of scientists from the camp declaring chronic Lyme non-existent or rare, and advocating extremely narrow diagnostic criteria, also happen to possess very strong past and/or current links with research into biological weapons. Given that these same scientists characterise Lyme as an "easily-cured" somewhat trivial disease, it is remarkable that leading biowarfare scientists have devoted, and continue to devote, so much time to studying it. All these issues are highly relevant to the discussion and explain neatly why there is a controversy regarding the "Steere camp" of Lyme scientists' links with biowarfare research.

The debate regarding the use of the word "biodefense" rather than "biowarfare" is a non-issue, as most of the reearch is acknowledged to have dual-purpose potential, ie it could be used both to develop bioweapons and to defend against them. Shine a lite (talk) 17:54, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

I’m not sure which edit [[3]] of mine you are referring to. You may be referring to someone else’s edits, probably Charanti’s, who in my opinion was able to restore the section to a NPOV tone before your recent edits. Regardless of who performed the edits that you disagree with, I have problems with the new version of the passage. I won’t repeat Charanti’s concerns, which are detailed above under Talk:Lyme disease#Lyme Funding, but I will list some other concerns below.
The assertions that a disproportionate number of leading Lyme disease researchers are involved in biowarfare research are either unreferenced or improperly referenced with unreliable sources. The claim that “so many Lyme disease” researchers are members of the EIS, also unreferenced, is not credible. It would be easy to find among the many hundreds of former EIS members some who now participate in Lyme disease research.
Moreover, the definition of “biowarfare research” used here is overly broad and casts a wide net that includes basic research of any microbe that can be a potential bioweapon, even if the research is performed openly and has no direct application to creation of bioweapons. Hence by this liberalized definition, to give just one example, anyone who has ever performed any type of research on HIV would have a link to biowarfare as HIV is a potential bioweapon.
It is also misleading to present the work of the pre-WWII Japanese with the “Borrelia genus” as evidence that Lyme disease research is connected to biowarfare. The Japanese were clearly working with relapsing fever Borrelia, not Lyme disease Borrelia, which was not discovered until decades later. Additionally, B. burgdorferi was present in the United States long before Erich Traub stepped foot on Plum Island. NighthawkJ (talk) 16:27, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
I removed the Japanese/Erich Traub/Plum Island passage. NighthawkJ (talk) 16:45, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] npov problem

Chronic lyme disease as stated in current version is not accepted by majority of medical authorities. A rewrite to include the presence of a standard, and a small minority of dissenters would be appropriate.User:Palmd001 04:18, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

That so-called "standard" was largely taken from the 2006 IDSA guidelines, now up for review after Ct Attorney General Blumenthal found the panel which composed them had serious conflicts of interest which biased their judgment. I am amazed this fact is absent from the article. "Blumenthal's findings include the following:

  • The IDSA failed to conduct a conflicts of interest review for any of the panelists prior to their appointment to the 2006 Lyme disease guideline panel;
  • Subsequent disclosures demonstrate that several of the 2006 Lyme disease panelists had conflicts of interest;
  • The IDSA failed to follow its own procedures for appointing the 2006 panel chairman and members, enabling the chairman, who held a bias regarding the existence of chronic Lyme, to handpick a likeminded panel without scrutiny by or formal approval of the IDSA's oversight committee;
  • The IDSA's 2000 and 2006 Lyme disease panels refused to accept or meaningfully consider information regarding the existence of chronic Lyme disease, once removing a panelist from the 2000 panel who dissented from the group's position on chronic Lyme disease to achieve "consensus";
  • The IDSA blocked appointment of scientists and physicians with divergent views on chronic Lyme who sought to serve on the 2006 guidelines panel by informing them that the panel was fully staffed, even though it was later expanded;
  • The IDSA portrayed another medical association's Lyme disease guidelines as corroborating its own when it knew that the two panels shared several authors, including the chairmen of both groups, and were working on guidelines at the same time. In allowing its panelists to serve on both groups at the same time, IDSA violated its own conflicts of interest policy."

  • http://www.ct.gov/ag/cwp/view.asp?a=2795&q=414284 Shine a lite (talk) 18:46, 26 May 2008 (UTC)