Talk:Low fantasy

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Peer review Low fantasy has had a peer review by Wikipedia editors which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.

Can anyone provide references or examples of the usage? The only ones I've found in the print world are in Gary K. Wolfe's Critical Terms for Science Fiction and Fantasy and the Clute & Grant Encyclopedia of Fantasy, both of which in turn point to a single 1977 introduction by Boyer and Zahorski, where the definition ("Narratives in which the fantastic element intrudes on the 'real world,' as opposed to fantasies set all or partially in a Secondary World") is not the same as that proposed in the article. The term is not otherwise in common use in literary criticism and is clearly a back formation from "high fantasy." The meaning in the article, on the other hand, seems to be formed by analogy with "low comedy." It might be useful to separate the areas where the term is actually used--in literary discussions, it is rare enough that I've never seen it used in 35 years work as a teacher and critic. RLetson 01:01, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

The objection about Harry Potter is right but for the wrong reason, the whole point of the morality section is to end the circuitous debate you can see at the top of this very page... Having fantasy races does not make it "High Fantasy", and being in an "alternate Earth" doesn't make it "Low Fantasy", but the moral dicotomy of good v. evil that is clearly defined and completely static DOES push it into the high fantasy realm.
The point of the "morality" argument is clearly defining one bellweather that can cut though all the "how much magik is too much magik" or "its an alternate earth, BUT WITH ELVES!" arguments, one clear and concise criteria with which to judge, or at least the "final" judgement if other points are too grey to decide upon. Sturmrabe 04:19, 9 August 2007 (UTC)


The February 2006 issue of White Dwarf magazine has a whole article on playing the Warhammer Fantasy Battles miniatures game with a "low fantasy" theme

This will probably only worsen your confusion, but I have never seen it used outside the internet, where it is used mostly about fantasy role-playing games, and only occassionally as a way to describe fantasy books. I mostly agree with Boyer and Zahorski's definition, though I would also like it to include some works set in fantasy worlds.

"The meanng in the article, on the other hand, seems to be formed by analogy with "low comedy."

That was not my intention. I will see if I can find a way to make the article better.sindreman

Allow me to make a suggestion: Start with the fact that the term has different senses in different contexts or subcultures and outline what they are. The Boyer-Zahorski sense seems to be the only one operating in the print/literary-critical world. (And I emphasize that it is a very rarely used term there, though "high fantasy" is pretty well established.) If the gaming world uses it in a different way even when talking about books or films or TV shows, document that usage separately. A possible dividing-point might be that the term seems to be constructed in contrast to "high fantasy," but with different elements or aspects of highness/lowness being emphasized.
Something like this:
Low fantasy is a term coined in opposition to various aspects of the older term "high fantasy." It has different senses in different contexts. As a literary term it originated with [cite Boyer-Zahorski], who see is as a subgenre of fantasy literature in which "the fantastic element intrudes on the 'real world,' as opposed to fantasies set all or partially in a Secondary World" [in-line citation of Wolfe and Clute & Grant]. [para break] In the world of role-playing games, however, "low fantasy" indicates [plug in whatever the most common usage is, along with citation]. The term is also sometimes used to describe comic fantasy [insert citation/authority/examples, along with note that this may be a relatively minor usage].
Just a suggestion, but one that might allow the various senses to be laid out without too much confusion. RLetson 18:57, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Rewrote the article to emphasize the umbrella nature of the "low fantasy" concept. Added several types that I had run across that were not included. OTOH, many of the meanings may overlap, and I did not develop that fully. Goldfritha 02:20, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Just goes to show; I need to du my edits quicker instead of planning them for a long time.Just kidding. Goldfritha, you've done a wonderful job. Sindreman (UTC)

I'm not sure if "Darklands" should be listed as an example, considering it's set in C14th Germany. It certainly includes fantasy elements, but is generally considered a historical RPG.

Real, including historical, settings are one criterion that has been held to be a mark of low fantasy. I'm not surprised that the term isn't often used, since it's so confused, but being in a real setting doesn't disqualify it. Goldfritha 23:04, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Original intent

I reverted an unreferenced claim that the "original intent" was "a story lacking a clear cut dichotomy of good versus evil." There have been a lot of original intents. Without references -- and for the claim that this was the original intent, and whose intent it was, and why this person's intent trumps all other usages -- this is not a valid cliam. Goldfritha 23:42, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moral Dichotomy and Low Fantasy

Although I agree the claim of that being its "original intent" oversteps its bounds, the ideas of what qualifies something as a Low Fantansy tale has only one overarching consistancy: the moral "greyness" of the setting or the main character (I refrain from using the term hero).

Some say its the lack of fantasic races and creatures, but you CAN have gritty, impure, self centered Elves/dwarves/whatever.

Some say its the use of magic, but like in Robert E. Howards Hyboria, magic is there, but its a horrible dark thing that corrups men and steals their soul.

But all agree that a hallmark of high fantasy is the Pure Good v. unredeamable Evil, and Low Fantasy ALWAYS lacks it...

So Harry Potter is clearly NOT low fantasy.

[edit] Harry Potter is NOT Low Fantasy, even by the definitions advanced in this very article

I'm sorry, I don't want to vandalize this article, but it is clearly wrong, even by its own definitions.

If Harry Potter is judged by the very criteria of low fantasy advanced here-- that it is morally ambiguous, that it has no fantasy races, that it de-emphasizes magic-- well, Harry Potter fails on every one of these. Harry Potter doesn't qualify as low fantasy just because it is (partially) set in the real world. So are the Narnia books, for gosh sakes; are those 'low fantasy' too? Obviously not. Harry Potter is a series that revolves around the use of magic, that has fantasy races and that has no moral ambiguity-- Valdemort is bad, Harry is good.

The original article needs to be changed to reflect this.

Request has been made

70.65.143.201 16:12, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

I've removed Harry Potter.
(From the History tab - I think you should have just deleted it. It was adding a comment into the body of the article that caused the reversion, not the comment itself).
AdamBMorgan 17:10, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
The "low fantasy" denomination is really a problem. First, by using the word "low", which do has an unconscious derogatory connotation, it will cause people to try to circumvent the classification; also, since it is a category of opposition to "high fantasy", and as such a definition only in the negative (and that of something quite vague to begin with!), something does not have to be "low fantasy" because it is not "high fantasy". Harry Potter is absolutely not high fantasy, and I doubt it is low fantasy. Then again, the definition of low fantasy used in this article is pure original research, so who knows... Miqademus (talk) 03:24, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Peer review

I created the subpage which is necessary for the article to be peer reviewed.-gadfium 20:04, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Witcher

Could the Witcher be considered low fantasy- gimodon —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.204.160.88 (talk) 02:14, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Massive Anonymous Edits

Some anon edits completely removed all references to the ambiguity of morality in Low Fantasy tales, this has been added back. I see a lot of butchering going on on this page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sturmrabe (talk • contribs) 19:08, 28 May 2008 (UTC)