Talk:List of leaders of Afghanistan

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Would be useful if the obviously knowledgeable authors of this page could look at the hastily cobbbled together Prime Ministers of Afghanistan and make some improvements... Possibly incorporating it herewith, and replacing with a redirect. Rich Farmbrough 15:56, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

• I merged the Head of Government and Head of State pages. The format isn't perfect, so if someone wants to alter it, go ahead. --Woohookitty 00:46, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 Cleaned 2 clarification 3 Dates in opening list: AD or BC? 4 List of Pretenders 5 Afghanistan was established as a state in 1747 6 State of Afghanistan emerged in 1880 7 Emirate of Afghanistan? 8 First called Afghanistan in 1857 and recognized in 1919 8.1 References

[edit] Cleaned

This page used to be under cleanup. I fixed it and removed the tag, though there may be some more revision that may be needed. I also suggest that Head of State and Head of Government be separated because in many countries, including Afghanistan, the 2 heads are usually different individuals, performing different roles and functions. Of course this is only a suggestion.

[edit] clarification

this article needs to clarify the difference between heads of state and heads of government. Kingturtle 17:22, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Dates in opening list: AD or BC?

I fixed one BC link (they need to be in the form 100_BC -- note the underscore), but I can't tell which of the other dates are BC. I.e., where in the timeline do the dates switch from BC to AD? Jeff Worthington 17:18, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] List of Pretenders

With the death of Mohammed Zahir Shah there is now a pretender to the throne (Prince Ahmed Shah Khan), rather than a living ex monarch - where's the best place for a list of the succession in pretence? Timrollpickering 13:06, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

---

The button Mohammad Ayub Khan points to an pakistani politic. -87.231.202.39

The link Mohammad Ayub Khan redirects to Ayub Khan. Are you saying that that is incorrect? Kingturtle (talk) 14:43, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Afghanistan was established as a state in 1747

User:Therequiembellishere made major changes to this page and pushed his POV by claiming that Afghanistan started in 1919. This means there was no Afghanistan before 1919. Well, according to facts, Afghanistan was created as a nation in 1747, not in 1919, and here are the facts to prove it.

• CIA factbook on Afghanistan, Ahmad Shah DURRANI unified the Pashtun tribes and founded Afghanistan in 1747.
• Library of Congress Country Studies, From Nadir Shah's death in 1747 until the communist coup of April 1978, Afghanistan was governed--at least nominally--by Pashtun rulers from the Abdali group of clans. Indeed, it was under the leadership of the first Pashtun ruler, Ahmad Shah, that the nation of Afghanistan began to take shape following centuries of fragmentation and exploitation. Even before the death of Nadir Shah, tribes in the Hindu Kush had been growing stronger and were beginning to take advantage of the waning power of their distant rulers. Two lineage groups within the Abdali ruled Afghanistan from 1747 until the downfall of the monarchy in the 1970s--the Sadozai of the Popalzai tribe, and the Muhammadzai of the Barakzai tribe.
• Encyclopedia Britannica, Ahmad Shah Durrani, founder of the state of Afghanistan and ruler of an empire that extended from the Amu Darya to the Indian Ocean and from Khorasan into Kashmir, the Punjab, and Sind.
• Columbia University, After his death (1747) his lieutenant, Ahmad Shah, an Afghan tribal leader, established a united state covering most of present-day Afghanistan.
• Frederick Engels, a German, visited Afghanistan in 1857 and wrote this article on the country, "Afghanistan, an extensive country of Asia, north-west of India. It lies between Persia and the Indies, and in the other direction between the Hindu Kush and the Indian Ocean. It formerly included the Persian provinces of Khorassan and Kohistan, together with Herat, Beluchistan, Cashmere, and Sinde, and a considerable part of the Punjab. In its present limits there are probably not more than 4,000,000 inhabitants..."
• Josiah_Harlan, an American adventurer visited Afghanistan in early 1830s.
• History of Nations, In 1747, Ahmad Shah Durrani, the founder of what is known today as Afghanistan, established his rule.
• Afghanistan Online, [1]
• Britannica Student, [2]

With facts like this you still believe the country did not exist before 1919? Afghanistan existed even before 1747 but was not recognized as an independent state or nation.

• The History of India, Volume 6, chpt. 200, ... they retired to their homes. The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were ques­tioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, “Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and dis­turbances.” Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns.
• A famous Moroccan traveller and explorer, Ibn Battuta, visiting Kabul in the year 1333 writes: "We travelled on to Kabul, formerly a vast town, the site of which is now occupied by a village inhabited by a tribe of Persians called Afghans."----The Story of Kabul, Mongols,

Afghanistan became officially a recognized state in 1747 so the list should start with "Heads of State of Afghanistan". I decided to write my message here because User:Therequiembellishere strangely removed my entire messages from its talk page. [3]--Al-Afghan (talk) 00:22, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

You apparently have looked at the page recently. Therequiembellishere (talk) 00:58, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't matter when people look at the page or article, the page's history explains everything because dates and times are shown. Everything made sense on the page before you changed it recently. I advice you to stop pushing POVs here because the odds are against you. What you say doesn't make sense. Afghanistan fought 3 major wars with Great Britain from 1838 to 1919. There is lots of record available for the nation Afghanistan.--Al-Afghan (talk) 01:02, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Recently?! You made your comment at 00:22, 5 May 2008 (UTC). After you talked on my page, I started fixing it at 15:22, 4 May 2008 (UTC)! I advise you to please stop being so assuming and look at the page before you comment and strut about as if others are wrong and/or automatically against you. Therequiembellishere (talk)

I changed Sadozai dynasty to Durrani dynasty because most sources say Durrani. Sadozai is their past linage while Durrani was what they wanted for their dynasty name. I removed double wiki links from names and years, and fixed years on the sections.

We need Sadozai in there because the Barakzai came after them. Both are Durrani so we need a way to distinguish between the two. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PashtoonBoy (talk • contribs) 05:37, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

From Sadozai came Abdali or Durrani then came Barakzai. But none of the Kings or Emirs ever used Sadozai. That is their past history linage, their former tribal affiliation. From 1747 to later one the Dynasty was recognized as Durrani Dynasty, but some sources also included Sadozai dynasty. I think Durrani is used more so we leave it at that. It's not that important anyway.--Al-Afghan (talk) 17:40, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for not reverting. The name Afghanistan translates to "land of the Afghans", so determining when the name "Afghanistan" was officially used in historical record is useless because everyone recognized this place by "Afghanistan" due to the meaning of the name.--Al-Afghan (talk) 04:16, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] State of Afghanistan emerged in 1880

According to Anwar-ul-Haq Ahady (a Pashtun himself and the head of Afghan Mellat) the state of Afghanistan emerged in 1880 under Abdur Rahman Khan, not during the Ahmad Shah Durrani era as some people believe. See Ahady's article:

The Decline of the Pashtuns in Afghanistan, Anwar-ul-Haq Ahady, Asian Survey, Vol. 35, No. 7. (Jul., 1995), pp. 621-634.—Preceding unsigned comment added by PashtoonBoy (talk • contribs) 05:43, 5 May 2008

That's untrue and Anwar-ul-Haq Ahady is not a historian, he is only the finance minister of his country. He was saying that Afghanistan re-emerged in 1880 under Abdur Rahman Khan after decades of wars and political strife in the country. Do you believe that all the sources I provided above (CIA world factbook, Library of Congress Country Studies, Encyclopedia Britannica, and others as well as the personal accounts of people who lived at the time and visited Afghanistan are false?--Al-Afghan (talk) 17:29, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Anwar-ul-Haq Ahady was a professor of political science in the United States. His publications were peer reviewed and published in respectable journals. CIA World Factbook are not historians, they approximate certain things, and gather other information from other sources. PashtoonBoy (talk) 19:12, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Provide facts and evidence for what you say about Ahady. So you're pushing your POV that before 1880 there was no Afghanistan? Where did the Afghans live before 1880?--Al-Afghan (talk) 20:51, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

The general depiction of Afghanistan does begin in 1747. However, Al-Afghan, he isn't pushing POV at all. By shoving it onto people who just want to better the page, you seem to be pushing your own. Therequiembellishere (talk) 18:52, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

He is pushing POVs. He said that a currently living man in Afghanistan said the state of Afghanistan emerged in 1880. That man did not live in 1880s so where did he get his information from? If I name someone from USA and write that he/she said that the moon is owned by the United States because U.S. Government sent their employees to raise US flag on it does that mean it's true and not POV? Did the nation Afghanistan begin in 1747 or 1880? You seem to be not sure. I am not damaging the page, I fixed many of your errors. Instead of thanking me, which I don't need from you, you decided to offend me.--Al-Afghan (talk) 03:26, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Emirate of Afghanistan?

Did an "Emirate of Afghanistan" exist during the Durrani dynasty and the first Barakzai dynasty? PashtoonBoy (talk) 19:23, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Read what the word Emirate means.--Al-Afghan (talk) 20:52, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

That doesn't matter; was the country officially named, the "Emirate of Afghanistan"? If not, then no. It didn't, by the way, it was called the Durrani Empire, which Al-Afghan removed. Therequiembellishere (talk) 18:53, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Why it doesn't matter? The Afghans called their country "Afghanistan" (land of the Afghans). This is the name most countries recognized it by. It was called Durrani Empire? Is there proof to this or just your POV? Did the government or people of neighboring countries, Persia, Russia, and Hindustan call it Durrani Empire? If so please show me this so I can read it. Was Persia called Safavid Empire? Was Hindustan or India called Moghul Empire? Why is this name that much debated? Why can't you just accept facts? Hindustan (land of the Hindus) was the name of India, Afghanistan (land of the Afghans) was in the middle between Hindustan and Persia. In 1857, Frederick Engels physically visited Afghanistan and wrote a long article on the country. "Afghanistan, an extensive country of Asia, north-west of India. It lies between Persia and the Indies, and in the other direction between the Hindu Kush and the Indian Ocean. It formerly included the Persian provinces of Khorassan and Kohistan, together with Herat, Beluchistan, Cashmere, and Sinde, and a considerable part of the Punjab. In its present limits there are probably not more than 4,000,000 inhabitants..." We say "Emirate of Afghanistan" today because that's how Afghanistan was ruled back then.--Al-Afghan (talk) 00:36, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

You are obsessed with the idea that everyone has bias! We do not call that that because we think that it how it is; the p[North Korea|Democratic Republic of Korea]] would be the Supreme Dictatorship of Northern Korea if we did! Please stop pushing your own POV and open to discussion. It doesn't matter what an emirate is because the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan certainly wasn't led by emirs, now was it?! Therequiembellishere (talk) 00:47, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

That's the only comments you have about the facts I showed you? Taliban leader, Mohammed Omar, claimed he was Amir al-Mu'minin ("Commander of the Faithful") so we have to say he was emir or Amir. I want to know another thing. When people wanting to visit Afghanistan in 1700s or 1800s, did they say lets go to Durrani Empire or did they say lets go Afghanistan?--Al-Afghan (talk) 02:59, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] First called Afghanistan in 1857 and recognized in 1919

Here are some more sources that say the land was not called Afghanistan until later on in 1857, and recognized by the world in 1919:

Until the 19th century the name was only used for the traditional lands of the Pashtuns, while the kingdom as a whole was known as the Kingdom of Kabul, as mentioned by the British statesman and historian Mountstuart Elphinstone.^[1] Other parts of the country were at certain periods recognized as independent kingdoms, such as the Kingdom of Balkh in the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries.^[2]

With the expansion and centralization of the country, Afghan authorities adopted and extended the name "Afghanistan" to the entire kingdom, after its English translation, "Afghanland", had already appeared in various treaties between British Raj and Qajarid Persia, referring to the lands that were subject to the Pashtun Barakzai Dynasty of Kabul.^[3] "Afghanistan" as the name for the entire kingdom was mentioned in 1857 by Frederick Engels.^[4] It became the official name when the country was recognized by the world community in 1919, after regaining its full independence from the British,^[5] and was confirmed as such in the nation's 1923 constitution.^[6]''

[edit] References