Talk:List of MLB franchise post-season droughts

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Why are there special "notes" for the 2005 WhiteSox and Astros that this was their first pennant since Year XXXX? This smacks of recentism. After all, there are no comparable notes on any other franchise. If there's no substantive objection, I will remove.--DaveOinSF 16:00, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

  • "Recentism"? That's a new one on me. Or a recent one, anyway. Arguably, they shouldn't be listed at all, since they are the defending league champions. However, it seems silly to drop them and then have to re-add them. I expect the notes are intending to say that they both had droughts which are now ended... but then you would need to do that for other previous entries with long droughts, and since there is a separate listing for long droughts anyway, it does not seem necessary. Maybe the notes should be reworded to simply say "Defending league champion" and be done with it. Wahkeenah 18:07, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
    • Why say "defending champion" there but then not in any of the other lists? THe notes are now gone. The information is already in a separate listing on this page. DaveOinSF19:50, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
      • I still say that, technically, the current champions are not in any "drought" condition. Whatever. Wahkeenah 21:31, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
        • I think the intent was to have a list indicating when the last time each franchise had won a pennant. So the subtitle could be renamed, get rid of the "drought" terminology, but I will choose not to do so and leave that to the WP community. DaveOinSF 00:56, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
          • Ja. It's not really important enough to start an Edit Jihad. Wahkeenah 01:19, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
            • I changed my mind. Some of the other wording was awkward in any case. Wahkeenah 01:42, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Confusion here

In the "Longest major league pennant droughts through history" section, why do we have Arizona and Florida at 4 and 5 years but we don't have the current Baltimore drought of 22 years (since 1984) or Minnesota drought of 14 years (since 1992)? "One drought per team" is not an acceptable answer since the Braves franchise is listed three times - but not its current drought of 6 years (since 2000). Seems like some standard has been broken at some point. —Wknight94 (talk) 10:58, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

  • They arbitrarily cut it off after 13, as the list would start to get ridiculously long. The last few are listed because the teams are too recent to make that "cut". However, those short ones should be chopped from the list, due to the inconsistency. Their own "drought" is already duly noted earlier in the article. In fact, I will just go ahead and do it. This article is confusing enough without this perplexing minutia. Wahkeenah 12:13, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
    • There were some droughts missing from this section. I'm pretty sure it's all correct now. --BlueMoonlet 21:14, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Drought Start and Drought End - Ending the Confusion

Regardless of anyone's good intentions, this page is just CONFUSING - particularly the two sections labelled "Longest droughts through history". Yes it's technically true that a team's drought begins the year AFTER they win a title, and the last year of that drought is the year BEFORE they win their next title. It's just weird to see the year 2003 listed as the year the Red Sox ended their drought because everyone knows that 2003 was the year of Grady Little and Aaron Boone, and not Dave Roberts and Curt Schilling. Yes yes, all very technically correct, just not very user friendly, and not very intuitive.

Here's a proposal: Scrap the "Start" and "End" titles. Rename the columns "Previous title" and "Next title", and replace the years listed with the years the teams actually won the pennant/World Series. We'd have to have a special symbol for teams whose droughts "start" with the 1903 season, but that's a minor problem. Also, retitle the "Years" column as "Years without Title" or something like that.

If you want to sort of see what my proposal looks like (sort of), check out the List of FIFA World Cup national team droughts. --DaveOinSF 16:28, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Multi-decade?

What exactly does "multi-decade" mean, in the context of, "World Series in which both teams were ending multi-decade pennant droughts"? Does it mean 20 or more years? 11 or more? --Mike Schiraldi 06:16, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

  • Good question. It's hard to tell, since all the examples are 20 or more years. I take it to mean 20 or more, as that effectively constitutes a "generation", which might be what the original editor had in mind... an interval sufficiently long that a significant portion of the public doesn't remember the last one... as with the Tigers. Wahkeenah 08:52, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] (previously 1984)

Someone reading this article during the next few weeks should be able to easily discern that 1984 was the last time for the tigers. i realize that deep down in more complicated charts on this article the same information can be gleaned, but it isn't easy. and this info should be easy while the world series goes on. Kingturtle 04:27, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Unless you are going to add the previous postseason appearance, pennant and WS championship for the other 29 teams, this information is out of place.--DaveOinSF 05:26, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
Anyway, anyone who is interested in the postseason history of the Detroit Tigers is far more likely to visit the Wikipedia page Detroit Tigers than they are to here. Here's where the drought information is kept, not full postseason histories of the 30 franchises.--DaveOinSF 05:30, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, i think that's the key here -- while i do believe that this page is seeing a lot of recent traffic because of the playoffs, and also that lots of people are wondering when the last time the Tigers were in it, i don't think there's much overlap. By the time people come here, they know that information. And if they don't, and really want to know, they'll find it quickly in the most obvious place -- the Tigers' entry. --Mike Schiraldi 13:18, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

How about instead of placing the information in the first chart, we mention it in a sentence or two in the beginning? Just during the post season? Kingturtle 21:14, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

This sort of thing is far more relevant for 2006 World Series or Detroit Tigers than here.--DaveOinSF 00:21, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Red Sox 2004?

Didn't they end a > 30 year Championship drought in 2004? Shouldn't they be in the list along with the 2005 White Sox? After all, the title says "World Series in which either team could have ended a 30-year-plus championship drought". And, since they were there in 1986, wouldn't that game also go in there? Or should the title change to "World Series in which the winning team would end a 30-year-plus championship drought" or something like that. 65.3.232.142 20:30, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] More 2004 Red Sox

They're still alive in 2007, so their pennant/WS drought would be only 2 seasons ('05,'06). Everyone has been quick to change it to three, but please hold off until we know their fate. Thanks. EnjoysButter 03:48, 21 October 2007 (UTC)


[edit] World Series Droughts By Region

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball_franchise_post-season_droughts#World_Series_crown_droughts_by_region

In this particular section - there should also be a column for the length of the drought by years, not just seasons. - If not an alternative table.

It is not widely known that of the current MLB teams - and their regions, the region with the longest drought for a World Series title is Washington DC - mainly because there was no team playing in Washington throughout the 1970s, 80s, 90s and early 2000s. This doesn't detract from the fact that in terms of city droughts Washington DC has the longest drought - 84 years now. Of all current baseball droughts, that of the Chicago Cubs - 100 years, and of the Washington DC region - 84 years are really the only droughts that are out of living memory.

The next longest drought, that of the Cleveland Indians some 60 years ago, is still within the living memory of many, but I would like to see Washington DC's title drought played up more to put pressure on the current team to break the drought - something that doesn't seem to be happening probably due to the fact that the current franchise in Washington itself is relatively new. In particular, they need to strive to break their drought before the Chicago Cubs do - as otherwise they will then own the MLB's longest drought for the first time!58.175.240.247 09:19, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] World Series in which neither franchise had won a championship in 30-plus years

Doesn't anyone here think it's peculiar to have a heading worded as such and then include teams that didn't exist 30 years prior? I understand what the author is trying to get at, but either word the list differently or remove teams that didn't exist (i.e. AL teams prior to 1930, Florida Marlins, etc.) 30 years pervious to the World Series in question. I think that is sensible, no? EnjoysButter 08:00, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

What about the wording are you uncomfortable with? I think World Series like 1997, where one team had never won and the other hadn't won in a long time, are exactly what this article is about. As another example, imagine if this year's was a Cleveland-Colorado matchup. Two teams, neither of which had any championships in recent memory. I feel this is noteworthy, and makes sense both logically/technically and in spirit. --Mike Schiraldi 22:16, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
I like the nature of the list, but it doesn't really make sense to include teams in a "drought" of 30+ years if the team didn't exist for 30 years.
I liked the list as it was originally composed; a list of teams that had both gone 30 or more years since a title. In your example of CLE-COL, it's a bit unfair to include the Rockies as having a 30-year drought, since they've only existed for half that time.EnjoysButter 07:12, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
But the word "drought" doesn't appear anywhere within the section. Yes, it's in the title of the article, but there are several other sections in the article that are about teams that never did things, rather than teams that existed for a long time and haven't done anything for a while. Again, i'm happy to change the wording, but i'm not sure which part of it you'd like me to change. I'm sure we can work something out, though -- anyone who enjoys butter is a friend of mine. --Mike Schiraldi 13:07, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
It's all good. The new disclaimer does the trick now anyway. Hey, if you *didn't* enjoy butter I would think you were strange.EnjoysButter 05:08, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
Teams not around for less than 30 years should NOT be on this list. Make a different list for the remainder. Kingturtle (talk) 21:10, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cities waiting for their first World Series crown

Wouldn't it be better to use a wider definition of city for this list? Metropolitan areas would make more sense (even though most MLB teams are now located in the hub city of their metro), and avoid misleading the reader. The only case here on this list that is a major problem is San Francisco (while the Giants have not won the Series in the Bay Area, the Athletics have). I would change the City column to the metropolitan area, i.e., Dallas-Fort worth instead of Arlington. -- χγʒ͡ʒγʋᾳ (talk) 20:14, 12 April 2008 (UTC)