Talk:List of Holocaust survivors

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the List of Holocaust survivors article.
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For a June 2005 deletion debate over this page see Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/List of famous Holocaust survivors


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[edit] Abraham Foxman?

I thought I read that Abraham Foxman (current president of the Anti-Defamation League, ADL) was a Holocaust survivor. That he was secreted away from his Jewish family as a young child (infant?) and baptized, raised Roman Catholic, and then later re-embraced his Jewish heritage sometime after the war. Would he count?

[edit] Christians

I'm uncomfortable with the idea of sorting this page by religion of the survivor. What's the significance of Johan Huizinga, etc. being Christians, and are we going to sort the whole list by Christian/Jew? Dvyost 16:36, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I agree. As far as the topic is concerned, being a Jew at that time and place was enough to become a victim of the Holocoust, but being Christian was not. Karol 17:08, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)
Having not heard from anyone else, then, I'm pulling the Christian tags. Dvyost 29 June 2005 00:02 (UTC)

[edit] Hanna Arendt?

Why is she on this list? I have great respect for her - but as far as I know she were never interned by the Nazi regime. She got away to the US, and I find it a bit strange to find her here. Ulflarsen 23:41, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

According to the definitions on the top of the page, anyone who was alive during WWII and was a Jew is automatically labeled as a survivor. I find the notion to be utterly ridiculous (since Nazi policy was focused on purging any non-aryan races, that would make 90% or so of the world (note: the preceding statement is a bit sarcastic, so don't take the 90% figure at face value)) a "Holocaust survivor", but whatever. 189.146.98.49 (talk) 13:34, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Why survived

Why they survived?

[edit] Non-concentration camp survivors

I have recently seen two people described as Holocaust survivors who were never in any concentration camps, both of whom fled occupied territories during or before the war (Felix Rohatyn and Paul Laszlo). I tend to think of "Holocaust survivor" as being synonymous with "concentration camp survivor". What is the criteria? -Will Beback 04:53, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

A LOT of people, particularly communists and Jews were shot during the "Ostfeldzug". Many villages were razed and rubbled. Most of these victims never made it to a concentration camp ("making it to a concentration camp" sounds extremely wrong, but I don't know how else to put it). Surely, these are also victims of the Holocaust. Not all holocaust victims died in the gas chambers. Even among the concentration camp victims, people died during evacuation marches, from mass shootings, from exhaustion, from rampant disease, from euthanasia in hospital barracks, from medical experiments, often also in hospital barracks, from beatings, etc. etc. Finally, a lot of victims just froze or starved to death. NB: The Zyklon B gas chamber execution programme was only ever developed because many of the Nazi officials found the mass shootings too revolting and wanted a "cleaner" way to murder their victims.
That said, I agree that directly escaping death at a mass shooting or surviving a concentration camp is more serious than managing to get a visa out of the country amd leaving, possibly without ever experiencing physical violence. However, consider this: If you suddenly had to leave your entire current life and friends and family behind and travel to a far away foreign country, knowing then or later finding out that all of your family and friends were gassed and shot and your entire previous life and surroundings are completely destroyed, and you were one of the few fortunate ones who were given a rare chance to escape and survive -- would you not also consider that intensely traumatic?
Again, all that said, I would agree that a distinction between concentration camp survivors, survivors of other mass murder incidents and other survivors and refugees may be useful. As always, more information is better. However, I think whatever lists or categories are made, it will be important to really emphasize, possibly also in the list titles, that these are just a few notable survivors, and that these lists are not and can never be exhaustive (unless someone knows all the names of all these millions and millions of people). 86.56.48.12 15:19, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
Probably the term Holocaust survivor does not now mean the same thing as its etymology would suggest. After all, strictly speaking, it means anyone not killed by a holocaust. There is an attempt at definition of Holocaust in the article of the same name here, but the strong views of those interested in the subject matter mean that the term cannot be tied down to just one meaning. I suggest that for the term Holocaust survivor to be useful, it should be inclusive rather than exclusive and should make reference to those not in concentration camps, or not of the Hebrew faith, even if such individuals are not included in the list. DavidFarmbrough 10:30, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Listed in?

--Sheynhertzגעשׁ״ך 05:00, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A Few More Names

I noticed that this list does not include Marion Blumenthal Lazan, who wrote the book Four Perfect Pebbles, and her family; her father Walter Blumenthal (who died shortly after they were liberated from typhus), her mother Ruth Blumenthal Meyberg, and her brother Albert Blumenthal. Marion's book is amazing as it talks about the Blumenthal families experieces, told mostly by Marion, but with a lot of help from Ruth (who is in her nineties now and lives near Marion in New York).

I added H. Fenigstein. His work in psychotherapy was extremely radical and effective. If any question leave message on this page. (G.S.-Canada)

There was also a famous jew , whos name i do not remember , but who denies the existence of the gas chambers.If you know , write hes name to the list please.

[edit] Structure

It's probably tme to introduce some more structure into this article. Better to organize the entries by nationality, or by occupation. I guess the choice should be the same as in List of Holocaust victims, which currently has both. Karol 06:15, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Location of survivors

Is there a list which shows the location of survivors? I read an article that claimed there were/are more in the US and UK than Israel. Is this true? 86.17.246.75 00:22, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Paul Löbe

... the social democrat (SPD) was imprisoned in 1933 ("Schutzhaft"), had to spend some time in a concentration camp, then a regular prison, was released half a year later when he promised to discontinue his political activities, which was long before any concentration camps became extermination camps. He was imprisoned again in 1944 after the July 20 Plot, then was released a few days later as he had nothing to do with it. Not trying to be nitpicking or anything, but technically he's not a holocaust survivor, but a concentration camp survivor (there's a category for that) --Inza 02:37, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup?

This list should be cleaned up thouroughly, and orginized in the same way as List of victims of Nazism. Karol 12:27, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

To be honest, this is broken. I'm not sure how it can be fixed. There's still no clear understanding here as to how this list adds anything. We've got two problems - what is a 'survivor' and what is a 'famous person'? Baggie 21:11, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Even worse, this list may make it seem that some people are more "important" than others. I find the whole thing a bit nauseating. 189.146.98.49 (talk) 13:36, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Slain Virginia Tech Professor a Holocaust Survivor

I forget his name, but one of the professors killed in the Virginia Tech massacre was a Holocaust survivor. Would he be worth mentioning here?

He's worth mentioning but maybe take away the description that follows "scientist and professor"?

[edit] Vandalism

Can someone please clean this article of the vulgarity? I am unsure of how to do so. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eeedlef (talk • contribs) 01:27, 29 May 2008 (UTC)