Talk:List of Clannad characters

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[edit] A note about official trade names

Per WP:MOS-JP#Names of modern figures under the first numbered point, it states: Use the official trade name if available in English/Latin alphabet. Key, via the game's original OP video, and through advertisement of the game and other media such as the visual fanbook (which I have), have provided the trade names for many of the characters which include: Kyou (not Kyō), Ryou (not Ryō), Fuko not (Fūko), Kouko (not Kōko), Youhei (not Yōhei), Toshio Koumura (not Toshio Kōmura), and Yusuke (not Yūsuke).--十八 07:02, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cut it down

I'm sorrying but this page is f-ing stupid. It belongs to someone's game summary page, not an online encyclopedia. Delete this page. The page we have in the original Clannad page is fine. ParallelPain 22:09, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, because an encyclopedia shouldn't have any information should it? AstroNerdBoy (talk) 02:33, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Drastic cut-down and some other stuff.

So yeah, yesterday I cut a lot out of this article (mostly a lot of needlessly detailed plot summary) and today I've been looking over it and copyediting / cleaning it up. Nothing jumps out at me anymore except for the use of the present tense in this article, but that might just be more of a personal preference thing, so I'll leave that open to discussion. --Rubbrchikin 22:56, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

According to WP:WAF#Contextual presentation, writing in the present tense should be used when talking about stuff that happens in the story, and past tense for anything that happened before the story began.--十八 01:37, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Personally, I miss the detailed plot story line as I read the article to know about the story before watching the anime episodes.

For the sake of person who wrote all the details of the story and the people who would like to know Clannad's storyline (we can't really know any storyline from current Clannad article right now), I suggest to create a seperate article that contains Clannad's storyline for each character.Stevefis (talk) 23:42, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes I'm inclined to agree, at first I was very unhappy that so much information was removed, but then after thinking about it I realised it was the correct action for this particular page, this is supposed to be a list of characters, it really isn't appropriate to have a plot summary on this page but I do believe there should be one perhaps on another page, so I left it as Rubbrchikin had it. Max Vitor 18:49, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
But that wouln't work at all; Wikipedia is not a plot summary. The plot would have to be condensed and expanded on the main article, but even then it can't be too long.--十八 00:19, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

This is why I've REALLY started to hate Wikipedia. Some bastard who decides, "Its my way or the highway!" comes along and takes a royal dump on everything because they have made themself a Wiki-god. An Encyclopedia is a knowledge bank. Unlike a bunch of books one can buy, there's no limit to the amount of information that can be contained within Wikipedia, except for the people who feel that knowledge is evil somehow. No, we must keep it simple, short, and utterly pointless because it has no worth. Oh, and forget pictures because they violate copyright.

"I am a wiki-god! I am the law! Information is evil because I don't like a lot of information! Therefore, I will use my god-powers to delete the filthy information because it should be somewhere else, and not in a repository of information. I am a wiki-god! Bow before my awesome wisdom and tremble!"

So I'd like to thank Rubbrchikin for saving me from information and ParallelPain for getting the ball rolling. I'd hate to know anything, even if on a fictional title, especially since I'd been using said information previously. AstroNerdBoy (talk) 02:32, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

There is a difference between having enough info, and having an excessive amount of it. It doesn't take a "wiki-god" as you put it to see that 115KB of info on character info/plot summary is excessive, especially considering an utter lack of real-world contextual information.--十八 04:26, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
I respect your view point Juhachi, however, I happen to disagree with it. The commonly sited statement, "current consensus is that Wikipedia articles are not [plot summaries]," is simply untrue. In the very least there isn't a consensus. "Lack of real-world contextual information" describes much of the information within Wikipedia. While one can argue about the "quantity" of information it would be difficult to make a legitimate claim that plot summaries are useless. They provide some of the most useful information in regards to the work's 'fictional universe'. "What happens" is just as important as "Who it happens to" and "Where it happens". That it would be ok for the latter two and not the former one seems a little off... I agree that such plot summaries shouldn't fall under random locations, however, if someone wants to split it off into a separate page I for one would find it valuable.
Never mind. Plot summaries aren't done because of possible copyright violations. Although once someone has wrote it, it probably doesn't make much sense to delete it. It's still going to be in the history...--68.100.161.57 (talk) 07:09, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] About Fuko's "Ugū"

I think the sentence regarding Fuko's "Ugu" sound should be deleted as it's not really her habit and she only made that sound only when she was suddenly hurt. Besides, it doesn't sound like drawn out Ayu's "Uguuu~" at all.Stevefis (talk) 23:37, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Button/Botan

I'm a bit confused on this:

"She has a pet baby boar named Button (ボタン Botan?) after Japanese food botan-nabe, or wild boar nabe."

If this is the case, why is the boar romanized "Button" and not just simply "Botan"? The name origin given here doesn't seem to suggest "button" at all, and thus it appears contradictory. However I don't know if the name "Button" is used officially, or if the name origin given here is original research and not official. Anyone know anything about this? --EmperorBrandon (talk) 09:05, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, if you want to be technical, both are original research. The boar's name was originally romanized as Button a long time ago, and when I first found the article in late 2006, it was already there so I just assumed that it was the official romanization, and even if it wasn't, it seemed reasonable to assume so. This thing about the name being dirived from botan-nabe seems logical, but even more of a stretch than "Button" in my opinion since ボタン really does romanize to button in Japanese-English dictionaries (or at least in the one I use in my computer, and the one sitting right next to me). Considering that I have proof to back up the romanization into Button, I think that it should be kept until a source could possibly be found for this possible botan-nabe origin. And the Japanese Wikipedia seems to agree too; see Botan (clothing) and Botan (GUI), both analogs to our Button and Button (computing) articles.--十八 10:46, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I rather lean towards its name being Bo-tan ('-tan' being that childish corruption of '-chan'). Bo could be a possible shortening of 瓜坊 (uribō, 'wild boar piglet'), ボア (boa, 'boar' in romaji), or something else entirely. My strongest reasoning against its name being 'Button' is that they always call it 'botan', never anything like 'botan-chan' (at least as far as I can remember); it seems odd to me that they would drop the honorific entirely. --SeizureDog (talk) 09:17, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

But I don't think having the pet's name with no honorific is all that strange. I never remember either Potato or Piro (or Sora) being called with -chan or otherwise. Technically, family members and those close in Japan don't use honorifics, so why should they be using them for their pets which they love? Therefore, I highly doubt this "Bo-tan" theory. I still stand by Button per my earlier post above.--十八 09:39, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Good point about Potato and Sora. However, I did some searching and some users at AnimeSuki (bottom two posts) seem to think that the name has multiple meanings, which each character taking it in a seperate manner. I just reviewed the scene where botan is first introduced, and noticed a couple of key things.
  1. Kyou thinks the name is "pretty", which seems to more strongly imply she's referring it as a peony flower (botan, 牡丹) than it does a button.
  2. Tomoya says that it "sounds so delectable", obviously taking it as the "boar meat" meaning of 牡丹.
In any case, it seems that 'button' is less likely the intended word. So I've revised my thinking, but still don't think it's Button.--SeizureDog (talk) 10:49, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
It may be less likely to you, but Button has official Japanese language sources to back it up, while everything else is merely straight speculation. Not to mention that the namer of Button (probably Maeda, but it could just as well have been Kai, Suzumoto, or Okano) might have intended it to have multiple meanings with button/peony/boar meat all rolled into one. But that's a pretty big maybe. And hell, even with both Piro and Potato being named after food, Sora wasn't for one, and none of the cats in Little Busters! are named after food either (they're all named after famous people in fact, one being named after Hitler even), so it's still up in the air as to what ボタン really means.--十八 11:33, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
"Button has official Japanese language sources to back it up." - I'm not doubting you, but where was this stated? Was this in an interview or something? I'm curious since Button as clothing or computing is not the first meaning that comes to mind when I'm introduced to a boar named Botan... --121.116.90.253 (talk) 23:57, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
While there is no direct interview, shouldn't we still use what agrees with the original language, in that ボタン does in fact romanize to Button?--十八 00:52, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. For the time being, keep it as "Button"; if a future official english release makes it "Botan", it can be changed then. --nyoro~! Highwind888 (talk) 03:49, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Well considering that it is a boar, I'm quite certain it's from botan-nabe... Akio and Ushio even calls it "Nabe." :) And anyways, even if you take out all the implied meanings and straight romanize ボタン it becomes bo ta n. Pets' names are usually written in Katakana. --Mikeats (talk) 18:10, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] About contributions from 24.247.15.44

Recently, this user is adding things that are more towards the adaption of the anime instead of the visual novel. Should I fortify it with some game info or just ignore it, or vice versa?

RasAlmond (talk) 03:50, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Try to make everything as visual novel-centric as possible. Putting an anime bias on the article when the VN came first isn't going to help matters and will only confuse things.--十八 07:42, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Proposing an expansion

Now, I know this is a bit of a touchy subject, but let me explain. I think back when we had over 100KB of character info/plot summary, that was much too excessive. However, the information for the secondary cast was cut down so much that some of the characters only have a few sentences to their name, which is much less than they deserve. Any character list on Wikipedia should at least try to make all the entries relatively the same size for characters in their respective groups, which means all the main characters would have generally the same length of description, and all the secondary characters would have the same length (but less info than the main characters), and same goes for the minor characters at the bottom (which would have less info per entry than the secondary cast). So I propose we bring back some of the information that was split off, and anything else we can move to an external wiki, as is suggested at WP:FICT#Relocating non-notable fictional material where it states:

Fictional material unsuited or too detailed for Wikipedia can be transwikied to the appropriate GFDL-compatible wiki, such as Final Fantasy Wikia and Wookieepedia. Other sites, such as Gaming Wiki, may also accept material. Transwikied material should be edited to meet the guidelines of specific wikis; do not just copy and paste.

So what do you say? I think the Gaming Wiki they provide a link to would be perfect for any visual novels here.--十八 07:47, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm, I have intention of expanding the whole characters info, but you see, some characters information are like roller coaster. Things that are worth mentioning, for example Akio and Sanae, for their unintended involvement in Nagisa's weak health. Then I wonder, what if my char infos are too spoiler-ish and is removed again?
So, writing the character details like List of Little Busters! characters or List of Kanon characters would be sufficient?

RasAlmond (talk) 08:09, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

The Little Busters! character list I think is fine, but even some entries on the Kanon list can be toned down, like Makoto's, Shiori's, and Mai's. And the problem wasn't spoilers, it was excessive details, and much too long winded. I realize that Clannad caries a very long and detailed story, but only try to put the most important points and summarize them as best you can while keeping a look out for the length. In general, I'd say if the text for a given character is getting too long, cut back on the details. Remember that not every little thing has to be said, and much of the time details can be left out while at the same time getting the point across.--十八 20:24, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
I have expanded the main character section, and I do hope that this is acceptable compared to the 100KB one. RasAlmond (talk) 09:18, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Two images of Tomoya

Is it really necessary to have two images of Tomoya? They're effectively the same anyway. Makes it a bit cluttered unnecessarily, so one should be removed (I guess keep whichever one looks better). There's already sufficient amount of images on the page! Highwind888 (talk) 05:36, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Seriously, I don't think having two pictures of Tomoya is that much of a problem compared to the outlandish number of images in the secondary characters and minor characters sections (not to mention the total number of the images in this article). I'm rather surprised this page hasn't been targeted for FUR infractions as I've seen it happen to a number of other articles already, and even though I don't agree with the "policies" cited during these image-removal raids, I also believe that having this many images so close in proximity to each other isn't really helping anyone. However, perhaps if the sections on the supporting cast were expanded a bit, then maybe it wouldn't seem so bad, but even then I still don't really agree with it. That said, I also won't do anything about it, but wait until someone actually does come and remove the images per FUR infractions.
Having said all that, I agree about the Tomoya pics. I think the movie image looks nicer.--十八 08:43, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
The anime one looks better, except for his school badge. Anyway, should we vote for which one to be removed or remain it?RasAlmond (talk) 06:49, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
Well, lets do it. I guess currently there's one for the movie and one for the anime. Should we set a time period for this or leave it open-ended? i.e. max votes in 2 weeks or a month or something... Highwind888 (talk) 00:34, 13 March 2008 (UTC)