Talk:Lavash

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is within the scope of the following WikiProjects:

Contents

[edit] Comment

Armenian cracker bread is something else...its a cracker not a soft bread.

No it isn't, Armenian cracker bread is lavash. Use Google. Hakob 22:09, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dictionary.com

Reference the user supplied gives information about the etymology of lavash. What it reads is "Armenian, from Turkish", which means that the word entered English from Armenian, and it entered Armenian from Turkish.

So, the user wrote "it is of Armenian origin";

1. If the user wanted to imply that the word's etymology is of Armenian origin, this is not true. The reference he gave denies himself.

2. If the user wanted to imply that lavash bread itself is of Armenian origin, the reference he supplied doesn't give any information about this.

--85.102.189.236 11:27, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Origins of lavash

One of the users has modified the article citing that lavash is natively Armenian giving two references. I couldn't verify one of the references.

I found the second reference in Google books. Here is the url:

Like Our Mountains: a history of Armenians in Canada

In the book the author doesn't give any information that it's natively or originally Armenian, only writes that it's an Armenian dish, but it can also be a Persian dish, Turkish dish etc...

In another book I have found in Google books it reads about the Iranian roots of lavash, although it's called Armenian flatbread. Here is the url:

Making Classic Breads with the Cutting-edge Techniques of a Bread Master

In another book, it reads that it's a Georgian bread. Here is the url:

The Soviet Jewish Americans By Annelise Orleck

So, if you can find serious sources, verifiable ones will be appreciated, I will be with you to revert the article. Thanks...

Chapultepec 22:16, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cuisine stubs

Chapultepec may I remind you the more stubs the better it makes the article more popular and more people will see it, please do not remove it because that is the whole purpose of the tag, so people will see it and possibly expand. Artaxiad 02:43, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

I have no objections for the tags. What I fear is, in multi-national cuisine stubs only, that all the other related cuisines will rightfully place their tags and soon the articles will be a mess of cuisine stub tags. Chapultepec 02:50, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Well the majority are Persians and Armenians judging from the article, plus the Turkish cuisine and the rest are going to be accepted so everyone is going to make it. We will judge by the majority so far Iranian, Armenian, Turkish seems fine for this article thats not bad. I doubt theres going to be any more. Artaxiad 02:54, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
That's ok, not a problem. Thanks. Chapultepec 02:58, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The bread

This is a reprize of what I put on the talk under hummus. This bread, it sounds very much like the bread I knew in Lebanon, called ma-ouk [forgive my spelling or such, I remember only how it sounds] This was a flat bread, would not make a pocket, and was made by throwing the dough on an inverted wok-like metal dish. Was not often seen in Beirut, was considered a peasant bread, found in the countryside. --Dumarest 19:14, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Dacy do you mind explaining your newest addition? --VartanM 22:59, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Eloghlu, the sources you added are not reliable for number of reasons. Economist source is a journalist diary, and there is no mention of Azerbaijan the article says its origin is in northern Iran. The second source is bogus it only mentions lavash once. Third one is not reliable because its not a refrence, its a recipe of how to make lavash, and nowhere in that source it says that lavash is has Azeri origin. The fourth one is also bogus, no mention of lavash whatsoever. Please don't disturb this article. VartanM 02:33, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

You don't own article so you can't say other people not to touch the article. Regarding sources. The article has three sources. Following your logic teh article has two other boguz refrences. Either we will leave Economist or should remove two others as well. Besides, these first two sources does not indicate from there it has taken. So, please provide full description of sources. Besides, I am adding the source about the origin of the word 'lavash'.--Dacy69 14:10, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
I edited and added two versions of the origin - Azeri and Armenian. I hope it will end the dispute. The source which I provided for the origin of the word lavash being Turkic also claims that it was emanated from Armenia. I believe it is fair enough.--Dacy69 14:22, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, both are bogus references. Nowhere to I find the words Lavash is Azerbaycanlar.Hetoum I 00:46, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Dacy, the Economist article is not reliable because, first and foremost it doesn't say lavash has Azerbaijani origins, secondly its a diary of a journalist. Eda-server.ru reference only mentions lavash once, here is what it says
Мясо заедают рисом (или рисом, завернутым в лаваш) и вслед за тем пряной травой. Translation to English Meat is served with rice (or rice rolled in lavash) followed by greens
Please show me where it says lavash has Azerbaijani origin. Lastly don't put words in my mouth, I never told anyone not to touch the article. I only politely asked not to disturb it, and adding bogus sources is certainly disturbing it. VartanM 01:58, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
The Economist article says lavash originated in Azerbaijan, so I added that info back. Also, how the word lavash is Armenian, if it is of Turkish origin? This line makes no sense. Grandmaster 09:38, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Economist says merely "north-western Iran." That's both Iranian Azerbaijan and historic Armenia. It doesn't contradict the "Armenian origin."--TigranTheGreat 22:28, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

So North-Western Iran is historic Armenia? Are you serious? Grandmaster 05:05, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
Never mind the geography, please tell me where in Economist or Eda.ru articles it says Lavash has Azerbaijani origin. VartanM 05:30, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
It says it originated in North Western Iran, which is Azerbaijan. Grandmaster 05:42, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
Thats WP:OR Northwestern Iran is Iran. VartanM 06:13, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
Whos the author of the Economist article? VartanM 07:16, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Armenian

Below are sources that say that Lavash is Armenian

http://books.google.com/books?id=mfERf5iJYbMC&pg=PA280&dq=lavash+armenian&sig=fM2c84XxyxtWXt36o2RwhV_LwLY http://books.google.com/books?id=WhcZ2nr2aEoC&pg=PA91&dq=lavash+armenian&sig=a6hGjGtrAQZA9bA8ZSfD5G7IMfY http://books.google.com/books?id=JvsTJwvUbHkC&pg=PA36&dq=lavash+armenian&sig=HwZQ1tvJtZt0kcj46w9ua61oI20 http://books.google.com/books?id=H-WRU06X-4kC&pg=RA4-PA2&ots=0AVbXyFnXv&dq=lavash+armenian&sig=XH5gATRExiUn9iAyGDZKqhfwXiQ http://books.google.com/books?id=sLI5CdQbYU4C&pg=PA27&ots=rLRTaDDORI&dq=lavash+armenian&sig=cixEtuwExfQ6-6P8cbG7AB3q6CQ http://books.google.com/books?id=jst-nbnQ_ZUC&pg=RA1-PA59&ots=QwuwQlPHhp&dq=lavash+armenian&sig=1bLGDmU956w33mZ6qb6lCLGwgpA http://books.google.com/books?id=W-AvAAAAMAAJ&q=lavash+armenian&dq=lavash+armenian&pgis=1 http://books.google.com/books?id=3hARNVh4GDkC&pg=PA32&dq=lavash+armenian&sig=Y2E-tUL7exHhPEkaagY0sozlSHE http://books.google.com/books?id=nkA3pUvcWvoC&pg=PA107&dq=lavash+armenian&sig=dFi1So8W7DFV86ln3Dg_5j3fm4g


Do you want more? VartanM 05:58, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

As you noticed perhaps, in my version I had two opinions saying about Armenian and Azerbaijani origin. Secondly this article has now two unclear references. Please provide full description of reference number 3,4. Plus, information about the origin of word in incorrect. The reference says about etymology of the word which is from Turkish.--Dacy69 14:58, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps you've noticed what I said about your so called references. VartanM 16:15, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
Yes, pls. provide full descirption of those references and see information below.--Dacy69 15:31, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

some sources don't say it clearly, other are penned by Armenian authors. Below are sources that say Lavash was Georgian, Damascus (Arab) or Iranian for example, there are that say Turkish, Arab, Hebrew, Greek. Best to say Middle Eastern, which is what reliable sources do.

http://books.google.com/books?id=iRjiPR-GnnoC&pg=PA107&ots=PWU1YSDcY8&dq=&sig=qykp__UHl7DdFOBH1n6bLdAu8UU http://books.google.com/books?id=ydmtk2HGrcAC&pg=PA102&ots=3u1z5P1J3-&dq=&sig=Gui8fCTvEo_OOi0DgbCx7igAbAM http://books.google.com/books?id=QfWii9yeYdQC&pg=PA65&ots=cCra010iRq&dq=&sig=hwhMdHdjzyJbeGOAVhvasRNio-w http://books.google.com/books?id=6sJhZYvzyn8C&pg=PA74&ots=DtDTlLWqQX&dq=&sig=g7e0IgCjocjPbu-GetRoLp7U3n8 http://books.google.com/books?id=BKwYAAAAIAAJ&q=lavash&pgis=1#search http://books.google.com/books?id=kjZdbchMF94C&pg=PA70&ots=C8iyuPljq3&dq=&sig=xFqMACQpXcp_yoDtt4-zsIfq2Qo#PPA20,M1

More can be listed. Eloghlu 15:08, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Your sources

Eloghlu, its nice to see you in the talkpage. We are yet to see any reliable sources. VartanM 00:29, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

  • especially for VartanM:

wording on 1 and 2 about lavash is same, but pages are different, authors are different

3. "what kind of reference is this??" you ask - "oval loaves of lavash (Georgian bread)" (Jewish Russians: Upheavals in a Moscow Synagogue By Sascha L. Goluboff).

4. "soft lavash wraps (sometimes called Damascus wraps)." (A Year in a Vegetarian Kitchen: Easy Seasonal Dishes for Family and Friends By Jack Bishop) - I think "Damascus wraps" is a rather unambiguous reference to origin.

5. "nothing about its origin" you say - "For Iranian flat breads, that is, barbari, lavash, taftoon (tanoor), and sangak, flour of 78%, 82%, 84%," (Flat Bread Technology By Jalal Qarooni)

VartanM - you references are mostly written by Armenian authors, who are neiher chefs (cuisine specialists), experts on lavash or historians. From my references, one Mr. Pokhlebkin, a top Russian-Soviet authority on the subject of national cuisine, is enough to override your refs, plus all other cooking/cuisine books provided. It is clear that lavash, despite being Turkish, has become so widespread and popular in all of Middle East, with everyone making their variations and varieties, that now it cannot but be called "Middle Eastern bread". Eloghlu 07:28, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Eleghlu, calling my references mostly Armenian is absurd, only one was Armenian, which I removed. If we follow your logic then we should rename Turkish coffee to Middle Eastern coffee. As for Mr. Pokhlebkin can you please provide the link and a quote. VartanM 07:50, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Clearly armenian. WHere you in middle east find non armenian lavash. Throught foods like this exist around middle east, but they aren't lavash.

[edit] McLavash

In eastern Europe lavash is quite a populars, so McDonalds has made McLavash. Look here http://foto.inbox.lv/greg1w/20-06-2007/P1010130-1.jpg Just don't understand, what armenians do with parandjas? 159.148.71.250 09:57, 8 August 2007 (UTC)