Talk:Kurdistan Workers Party

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[edit] PKK and EU terror list

The group is not removed yet, and it will probably not be removed. We can mention the court decision, but we need to also mention that the decision was on procedural grounds. "EU nations decided in April 2007 to inform groups and individuals when they are placed on the terror list." [1] PKK was listed in 2002. Osman Ocalan's application was dismissed in 2005. 128.211.202.45 (talk) 04:27, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

From MSN, Kurdish group no longer on EU terror list, European Court rules that black listing rebel group, its political arm illegal. The EU's 27 national governments said, however, they had no intention of removing the PKK or any other groups from the list, sticking to previously stated justifications that it had already implemented "a clearer and more transparent procedure" by which it adds people or groups to its blacklist. Today's ruling does not affect the validity of this list, the EU said in a statement, concluding that its interpretation of the ruling does not include the removal of the PKK or others from its list. So the PKK is still on the terrorist list, regardless of the court ruling. Kansas Bear (talk) 13:44, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Sorry somehow I pushed enter before entering the whole summary. 2) is that there is no change in situation with other countries. So Cyrus' rephrasing was misleading. There was a trial in 2006 (4 years after EU's listing of PKK as a terrorist organization) that an organization that was labeled terrorist had won, as EU had not informed them before listing them. The court universalized their own verdict, supposedly to even the ones that were labeled as terrorist org before that verdict. Apparently PKK won't be removed from the list (Just today, several PKK members were arrested in Belgium, a country where outright killers had roamed free (despite security camera footage of the killing) for many years just because they used only semi automatic rifles while killing a leading member of the second richest family in Turkey, the one that is more popular among the public. Soon after that the head of the family died, and now those killers are in two different EU countries, ttbomk.) 128.211.202.45 (talk) 22:33, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

PLease refer to http://www.statewatch.org/terrorlists/terrorlists.html where it clearly says that

"April 2008 - CFI strikes another blow to EU "terrorist list" - legality of "reformed" procedures remains in doubt. The EU Court of First Instance has overturned decisions by the Council of the EU to include the Kurdish organisations PKK and Kongra Gel on the EU "terrorist list" (04.04.2008). In Case T-253/04 bought on behalf of Kongra Gel and 10 other individuals, the EU court ruled that the organisation was not in a position "to understand, clearly and unequivocally, the reasoning" that led the member states' governments to include them. It reached the same conclusion in Case T-229/02, bought by Osman Ocalan on behalf of Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK). "

Can someone please comment further on this! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.139.127.7 (talk) 23:26, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

please add this to previous post

"http://curia.europa.eu/jurisp/cgi-bin/form.pl?lang=en&Submit=Rechercher&alldocs=alldocs&docj=docj&docop=docop&docor=docor&docjo=docjo&numaff=t-229/02&datefs=&datefe=&nomusuel=&domaine=&mots=&resmax=100" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.139.127.7 (talk) 23:53, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Even though it states, here[[2]] the PKK has been removed from the EU terror list. It also states in this same article, "The EU nations are obliged to implement the EU court rulings. However, recent changes made by the EU are likely to lead to months, if not years, of complex legal wrangling between the governments, the EU courts and those appealing to get their names off the list before the situation is resolved.." At the bottom of the article, it also states, "The EU's list, last updated in December, includes 54 persons and 48 groups and entities. The next review of the list is planned for June." I would be in favor of keeping the page with the PKK still listed(since technically it still is) until the EU review their list in June. At which time, if the PKK is not listed by the EU, then apply the appropriate editing. There should be, however, mention of the court case and its impact on the PKK's status. Kansas Bear (talk) 04:03, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Please see pkk_remains_on_eu_terror_list. Unfortunately BBC and co are not doing a good job updating info recently. Regarding the title of the section, PKK was a terrorist org even before 2002, and even more so, as their attacks did almost diminish in the 21st century, it stayed like that until Pkk was revived after US' Iraq invasion. Now Pkk is on its way to become a Syrian terrorist org. 128.211.202.45 (talk) 09:48, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

I suppose we can always state "PKK was listed as a terrorist organization between date1 and date2" sort of naming should PKK be removed from the list. -- Cat chi? 12:13, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

I think we need a new section for 'legal status'. It can be a subsection of section "2008 to date", and linked to that Wikipedia article listing the states which have designated PKK as a terrorist organization. We should mention the court decision, and Council of Europe's/EU's decision. We can give a timeline for the legailty, if we do not want it to be part of "2008 to date" section. Also, do all Council of Europe member states recognize PKK as a terrorist organization? That would make the list bigger (Armenia, Azerbaijan, etc. ) 128.211.202.45 (talk) 13:55, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Murat Karayilan statement from the Daily Telegraph

According to this reference[[3]], Murat Karayilan, in an interview with the Daily Telegraph claimed that US officers have regular meetings with the PKK in Northern Iraq. No where in that link, does Murat Karayilan state he has met with US officers. Actually, he does say this, Murat Karayilan, a Kurdish guerilla commander, told The Daily Telegraph that Teheran had originally tried to recruit the outlawed groups to fight coalition troops in Iraq. The US and Britain came to Iraq to establish a democratic system, but this scared the Iranians, so they negotiated with us and offered many things to attack the coalition. Meaning, the Iranians had been negotiating with the PKK. Therefore, I will be changing said sentence. Kansas Bear (talk) 06:43, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] US Department of State report

“ Austria [...] However, Austria failed to coordinate fully law enforcement activities with other states against the militant Kurdish separatist group, Kongra Gel/Kurdistan Workers’ Party (KGK/PKK), an EU- and U.S.-designated terrorist group. For example, in mid-year, Austria initially detained and quickly released KGK/PKK operative Riza Altun and allowed him to board a plane for northern Iraq, despite the fact that he had fake documents and faced charges in France and an extradition request from Turkey. In November, Austria failed to detain Remzi Kartal, a KGK/PKK leader known to be traveling to Austria who was wanted by INTERPOL. [...] ”
“ Belgium [...] Belgian authorities remained concerned about potential terror activities involving groups from Algeria and North Africa, and have investigated groups such as the Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group (GICM), the DHKP/C, a far right group with links to neo-Nazi groups, and a cell suspected of training members for attacks in Iraq. The KGK/PKK is a known presence, with television production studios in Brussels. The KGK/PKK continued to exploit Belgium to raise illicit financing for violence in Turkey and its camps in northern Iraq. [...] ”
“ Cyprus [...] Kurdish-origin communities exist on both sides of the island. The KGK/PKK has a presence in Cyprus, although its activities generally were limited to fundraising and transit en route to third countries; authorities believed there was little risk the group would conduct operations there. Cyprus maintained that it was fulfilling all responsibilities with respect to the EU designation of the KGK/PKK as a terrorist organization. [...] ”
“ Denmark [...] Denmark completed implementation of two counterterrorism legislation packages that were passed by Parliament in 2006. These new measures criminalized the recruitment of persons to terrorism and the training of others to assist in committing terrorist acts, including financing terrorism. These new counterterrorism measures enhanced the Danish government's ability to investigate and prevent terrorism and other serious crimes. In March, Parliament passed additional legislation that prohibited private persons from purchasing fertilizer with ammonium nitrate levels of more than 28 percent, which could be used for improvised explosive devices. Denmark worked closely with the United States on UN and other multilateral counterterrorism efforts, including the Financial Action Task Force (FATF), and in international nonproliferation groups, such as PSI and the Global Initiative to Combat Nuclear Terrorism. We note however, that Roj-TV, a KGK/PKK affiliated media outlet, continued to operate in Denmark. [...] ”
“ France [...] In February, counterterrorism police detained 16 Kurds suspected of links to the KGK/PKK; all were charged with various crimes including extortion, money laundering, and terrorism financing; and were suspected of providing financial support to the KGK/PKK to fund terrorist attacks in Turkey. Riza Altun, who has been wanted in Turkey for many years on terrorism charges, was among those arrested. After being released on bail, he fled France for Austria and was allowed to depart Austria for northern Iraq. Altun is still wanted in France and is being prosecuted in absentia. [...] ”
“ Italy [...] KGK/PKK affiliated organizations maintained a presence in Italy and were thought to have links with affiliated charitable organizations that maintained Italian branches. [...] ”
“ Sweden [...] The Government of Sweden placed a high priority on increasing international cooperation against terrorism. Swedish authorities considered the threat of terrorist attacks inside Sweden to be low, but they monitored a number of known terrorists and terrorist organizations within their borders, including al-Qa’ida (AQ), Ansar al-Islam/Sunna, the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC), Hizb Al-Tahrir, Hizballah, Islamic Jihad, and the Kongra-Gel/Kurdistan Worker’s Party (KGK/PKK). They provided logistical and financial support to their respective organizations abroad. [...] ”
“ Switzerland [...] Swiss companies are slowly increasing the pressure on the Swiss government to allow them to participate in the Customs Trade Partnership Against Terrorism (C-TPAT) initiative, but Swiss legal barriers preventing Swiss firms from being active participants remained in place. Article 271, paragraph 1 of the Swiss Penal Code forbids foreign government agencies, such as the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, from validating or contacting Swiss companies that export. Strict Swiss privacy laws also make initiatives such as C-TPAT difficult to implement.

Due in part to increased antiterrorism activities in neighboring EU countries, several terrorist organizations, including the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE), Kongra-Gel/Kurdistan Worker’s Party (KGK/PKK), and the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC), have a presence in Switzerland. Existing Swiss law and practice prevent the government from listing these entities as terrorist organizations. [...]

 ”

Just a few exerts that can be used in the article. -- Cat chi? 11:04, 3 May 2008 (UTC)