Talk:Kombucha

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[edit] Alternate history and name

The Name “Kombucha” (as I understand it from the Tom Valentine book: Search for Health, [ISBN: 0-9648325-0-X, 1995]), comes from a Korean doctor named Kombu who was trying to cure the Japanese emperor, Inkyo (Ingyō), circa 415 CE with such a tea (cha). Can anyone verify this to be true/false?

Related to the Russian origins (also from Valentine’s book), Kombucha was called “tea kvass” (“квас”).

The yeast and other organisms (in symbiosis) “eat” sugar and tea. Black or green tea is typically used for the preparation, and sugar is added as the “fuel” for the growth of the Kombucha.

Günther W. Frank is probably the leading, modern-day expert on the subject. He has a website that may shed more light on this substance. [1]

I have no affiliation with him, nor have I even any idea how this stuff tastes (and so therefore I cannot advocate or denounce its use even as a tasty beverage at this point); however, Herr Frank seems to know the “culture” quite well and is noted in Valentine’s book (of which I also have no affiliation nor own a copy). I’m just trying to understand more about the substance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.139.25.39 (talk • contribs) 23:31, May 16, 2005

[edit] Section entitled "Kombucha Drops - Kombucha Extract - Information"

Kombucha drops has been merged and redirected to this article, however, the information appears to be copied and pasted verbatim from this webpage: [[2]]. Per Wikipedia:Copyrights, I am removing that information. Edwardian

[edit] System of a Down?

I don't know if anybody here has ever heard "Sugar" by System of a Down... wtf? What is that all about?, because I can find no references linking the events described in that song to... anything else period. Sweetfreek 04:15, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

It is probably completely fictitious. Most of their songs don't have to do with events at all. Maybe they're talking about people that drink this tea, maybe people from Asia, but more likely than not, they're talking about nothing. --T-4 19:54, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
I always thought that "Sugar" the song, had to do with the fact that artificial sweeteners can cause health problems and disease and that the both the FDA and the manufacturers do not give a crap. Other than that I can't see how you could derive alot of meaning from that one stanza, it's pretty non-sensical.

[edit] More ways to make kombucha?

in G.T.'s raw kombucha there is no sugar. it looks like there are more ways kombucha can be made. there's not much info i could find. try gtskombucha.com there's not much there though.

G.T.'s raw kombucha had sugar in it, as all kombucha does in the beginning. One of the things that happens during the fermentation process is that the sugar (as well as the caffein from the tea) is "eaten" by the culture so that only trace amounts remain.
But speaking of more ways to make kombucha, there is at least one other method that I know of (the one i use myself), and I am going to add it to the article. --Romarin 17:26, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
GT's labeling is somewhat deceptive in that they do not list the sugar in the ingredients list, just "100% organic raw Kombucha" (which implies a sugar content by definition) but they do at least list 2 grams per 8 oz serving of residual sugar in the nutrition panel.
The GT bottle also says they ferment for 30 days which seems quite a bit longer than the referenced recipes.
Also, the article says not to use plastic as fermentation container but this is irrational since one of the cited references is a commercial enterprise that sells FDA-approved food-grade plastic containers for that very purpose. Plastic buckets are also regularly used in home brewing of beer. Liberato 08:48, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
I believe that plastic is avoided as the somewhat porous nature of the material causes a culture 'slime' to develop along the walls during fermentation. Not detrimental to the SCOBY or tea, just non-optimal when it comes to harvesting. Plastic would be the obvious choice for high-volume production regardless of this effect. Home beer brewing entails brewer's yeast, not a SCOBY so they're not really equivalent. Gropo 18:24, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
That depends on a brewer's discipline of purification. Some re-use yeast, hoping that it'll be faster, and of course it is, because it's no longer pure. I know the smell of Molson's and Brewster's drying process. So, yeah, SCOBY and brewer's yeast don't compare for purity as regards the ratio between eukaryotes and prokaryotes, but I saw something from a descendant of Leuwenhoek that tells me a typical brewer's yeast isn't a monoculture, either.BrewJay (talk) 04:53, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

The article currently states that kombucha should only be brewed with black or green tea and not herbal infusions. I've been brewing kombucha with white tea with superb results, and my local co-op sells a bottled kombucha fermented in rooibos. I also made a batch with yerba mate, which came out bitter but worked nonetheless. In Sandor Katz' book Wild Fermentation, he writes about a friend who fed his kombucha on Mountain Dew – not very traditional, but possible. The culture clearly doesn't care what it drinks, so long is has some sort of sugar (I use brown sugar or honey) and maybe some caffeine, though the article could talk about this more... Morganfitzp 18:35, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

I hav the same opinion -- just about any plant matter, and one of the references I just put in tested Lemon Balm. I've been trying to figure out what would work for a solid substrate. Maybe that'll give me mycellium and a monoculture. I'm thinking that oak leaves, dried and pulverized might work. Just keep gradually adding powder or boil-concentrating a portion of liquid until the aerobic part pretty much has to surface. BrewJay (talk) 04:53, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] History

I deleted the following paragraph because it looks total nonsense:

The name Kombucha is derived from the name of a Korean physician, Kom-bu, who introduced the drink to the Japanese Emperor Ingyō in the year 414 AD as a healing drink. The drink became known as Tsche of Kom-bu (Kombu cha).

I guess this refers to an event recorded in Kojiki and Nihonshoki: Emperor Ingyō invited a doctor from Silla and let him heal the emperor. According to Kojiki his name was Kon (Komu) Hatori-kanki (Hachin-kanki) Mu (金波鎮漢紀武). But neither Kojiki nor Nihonshoki explains how he cure the emperor. Of course, he has never been associated with tea, mushroom or kelp (kombu). --Nanshu 10:40, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

According to the Daijisen (Yahoo Japan) Dictionary entry for "kombu", the Japanese word kombu (昆布) came from Ainu.--Endroit 08:12, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
  1. I don't think the etymology of kombu has a direct relation with that of kombucha (in western sense).
  2. FYI, the etymology of kombu is controversial. This page explains two other theories.

--Nanshu 00:10, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Why were my additions concerning continuos fermentation deleted? What is the point of contributing?

Deleted as part of spam link removal on several articles. Feel free to re-ad the info with reliable (preferably non-commercial) references. Cheers, Vsmith 16:01, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

The reference to the Qin dynasty sounds very suspicious. I'd like to see it backed up, otherwise I don't think it belongs there. Alexwoods 14:50, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

It might be irrelevant but there is a Chinese medicinal substance called Konbu which is a kind of seaweed. It is also used in Asian cooking. This may be an additional source for the confusion surrounding the word "Kombucha". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.169.188.227 (talk) 19:12, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Synergy

I lack the wikipedia "experience" and probably the free time to do up a whole "citing" of sources and addition to this article. But could someone please add a section on Kombuchas newest incarnation that is "Synergy"? Synergy is a drink that bottles Kombucha juice in thick glass bottles and sells them for $3 a pop. The store that sells it is almost always out of them, it's a really big thing. Heres the source http://www.gtskombucha.com/

An unsigned comment proffering unverifiable claims of popularity about a product I've never heard of before? No offense, but this sounds like shilling. 209.30.170.226 02:27, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
It does appear to be shilling, though I've also personally noticed the brand carried at much higher frequency here in New York over the recent months. Our local Queens working class supermarket recently set up a display case (where a POM brand pomegranite juices display previously stood) Gropo 18:31, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
I agree with 209.30.170.226, let's wait until there's an article about it in the Guardian. Alexwoods 20:18, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Synergy is simply a commercial blending of fruit juice with the company's Kombucha tea. It is of no significance to the article. Liberato 08:58, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Is it worth mentioning in the context of commercial brands based on Kombucha tea? Mentioning how it is produced, concetrations of kombucha within it, and what the branding looks like might be of relevance in this article if presented in a NPOV way... --Tomhannen 10:11, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Commercial brand names should be mentioned, in particular the leading brands. Fruitcake mentions brands. Soft drink mentions brands. It's really awkward not to mention brands when talking about a product that is sold commercially. 96.231.161.184 (talk) 03:23, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Redirect

Oddly, when I searched for "Mushroom Tea" via Google, I was linked to an article about a hallucinogenic tea made from hallucinogenic mushrooms. I don't think this makes much sense, because I was looking for Kombucha, without knowing the name. I think that article should redirect here, with possibly "/Mushroom_tea(drug)" or some such be used as the drug-related article. Of course, that article is a tiny stub and could easily be deleted. That's just my thoughts. T-4 19:54, 27 April 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Components within Kombucha "tea"

The first claim: "Interestingly, it [Lactic Acid] is not found in the tissues of people with cancer" is false. Tumors produce copious amounts of Lactic acid due to their enhanced rate of glycolysis, and it is found in serum levels of those with cancer. (Blood. 2007 May 1;109(9):3812-9. Epub 2007 Jan 2) The author and reference page site no sources for this claim, nor any other claims under this heading.--Evander25 07:06, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Mycologist Paul Stamets was involved in some Kombucha research which suggests that it produces a novel antibiotic, and goes on to suggest that it is unwise for healthy people to consume it. Article and citations - http://www.fungi.com/info/articles/blob.html quote: "I do not see the advantage of taking Kombucha by people in good health. Given the detrimental effects seen from prolonged exposure to antibiotics, the repeated, long term use of Kombucha may cause its own universe of problems. I wonder about those people who have adverse reactions to antibiotics? What about those with sensitivity to the microorganisms in Kombucha? I personally believe it is morally reprehensible to pass on this colony to sick or healthy friends when, to date, so little is known about its proper use. At present there are no credible, recent studies as to the safety or usefulness of Kombucha, despite decades of hype." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.106.81.212 (talk) 19:12, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

"I do not see the advantage of taking Kombucha by people in good health." That's a good quote. It's interesting that I found that before even looking at the talk page...must be a sponsored google link, but the CDC cited him, and it's certainly a lot of fun to read that page. BrewJay (talk) 05:00, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Google cafeteria

Does anyone really care what they serve at the google cafeteria? I mean, does it have any encyclopedic value at all? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.249.202.53 (talk) 18:22, 29 April 2007 (UTC).I think that is true

Google represents a large block of culture. I think it's fine (a bit late I know.) jrabbit05 (talk) 04:29, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] hmmm

Forgive my interjection, but am I the only person to whom this sounds ewwww?Merkinsmum 11:18, 22 July 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Alcoholic beverage?

Had to read to the last section to find out this drink is mildly alcoholic. Doesn't this seem to be first paragraph information? or is the content too low? MDSNYDER 04:04, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

When it's made according to the standard recipe, it's about as strong as dealcoholized beer. When it's not, it doesn't seem to be safe, and nobody seems to know anything about it. BrewJay (talk) 05:05, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Psychoactivity of Theanine

This claim might need to be changed: "There are no known psychoactive or psychotropic substances found in Kombucha other than trace amounts of alcohol and, if not made with decaf tea, caffeine."

Kombucha contains the amino acid L-theanine. Synergy brand lists 100mg L-Theanine per serving. Theanine is what makes green tea relaxing despite the caffeine content.

This is taken from the Theanine page: Theanine is an amino acid commonly found in tea (infusions of Camellia sinensis). Theanine is related to a glutamine, and can cross the blood-brain barrier.[1] Because it can enter the brain, theanine has psychoactive properties.[2] Theanine has been shown to reduce mental and physical stress[3] and may produce feelings of relaxation.[4] Ridesbikes 04:35, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

No doubt in my mind that kombucha is mildly psyhoactive although the effect is subtle. I notice breathing becomes much more regular and the qulaity of sleep is markedly changed. 203.87.64.23 (talk) 01:34, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Flavor and other aesthetic qualities

I notice that while there are reams of text on the history, contents, production and supposed medicinal qualities of the beverage, there is nothing about its flavor.

Since I myself would sum it up as vinegar+soda water=kombucha, it would probably be best if someone that likes the stuff wrote it. 67.180.206.34 04:50, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

I think it tastes like a slightly fermented soda. Some brands are very mild and taste like iced tea. Of course, there's WP:NOR so I'd need references to add this to the article. Calibas 01:53, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Trivia

  • Chef Josef Desimone of Google makes kombucha for Google employees. Almost 100 glasses of kombucha are served every day at Google cafeterias.[citation needed]
  • The popular alternative metal band System of a Down references kombucha in the song "Sugar" on their self-titled album. Lead vocalist Serj Tankian screams, "The kombucha mushroom people sitting around all day."
  • Singer-songwriter and guitarist M. Ward listed kombucha as his "best purchase of the past year" in 2006, stating that "It's an acquired taste, but they tell me it rejuvenates, restores, revitalizes and replenishes." [3]
  • On an episode of MTV Cribs featuring the home of surfer Laird Hamilton and volleyball player and model Gabrielle Reece, their refrigerator opened to reveal several bottles of "Kombucha Wonder Drink," a bottled tea drink containing kombucha. Reece removed a bottle and displayed it to the camera, stating that kombucha is "a very good healthy drink, it helps support mental health and gives energy."[4]
  • Lindsay Lohan has been spotted drinking kombucha after leaving rehab.[5]
  • Jenny Lewis, frontwoman of Rilo Kiley, offers kombucha to Strawberry Saroyan while being interviewed for the September 2007 edition of Spin (magazine).

[6]~Removed from main text by Knorrepoes 12:25, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Source of information, Kombucha Cultures & ready-made Ktea [7] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.182.105.117 (talk) 14:19, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Grib

I'd give its alternative Russian name a little more prominence, and also a redirect from the GRIB page. Would anyone agree? Malick78 (talk) 18:25, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

It's nice to hav everyone who's interested on the same page.BrewJay (talk) 05:08, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The indication of the Blog - a external link

In line with the proper norms of good use from Wikipédia : " before inserting blogs and personal pages, the publishers owes to open a topic on the page of discussion of the product and explain the motives they think the link is important to be on the extenal links. " The link Kombucha Blog exposed on the page above the Kombucha on Wikipédia haven't none of the terms prohibited about to links. The contents of the site is purely informacional, do not have neither commercial objectives and have the constant preoccupation with the update of our content just as with the quality and exemption of exposed information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kombuchablog (talk • contribs) 04:20, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

I see no need to create a specific blog for a newsgroup.BrewJay (talk) 07:55, 10 June 2008 (UTC)