Talk:Justin Martyr

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[edit] Missing

Am I missing something (if so I apologize)? Where is the information on the martyrdom of Justin Martyr? I see nothing about his trial and execution here. --Daniel 12:18, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Inaccurate POV

Having read and studied all of Justin's writings, this article has a point of view. I edited it about a year ago to add balance to it, but those edits were removed.

I also noticed that a couple of times during the year, others added a link to my article on Justin that was removed as well. Yet the link to the Catholic Encyclopedia article always remains.

Justin clearly condemned mainstream Christians as well as distanced himself from the Judea-Christians of Asia Minor. This is either overlooked or glossed over in this article.

Is it possible that perhaps Wikipedia will one day be willing to keep edits to its early Christianity articles that will show the whole truth about the early Church?

One of the reasons I have not posted in about a year is that I believe that this will not happen with Wikipedia. Clearly many of its self-appointed police simply cannot consider that the way they want to portray early church history has a point of view, and a point of view that is not compatible with the facts of history.209.247.21.235 16:04, 14 January 2007 (UTC)COGwriter

This morning I added quotes from Justin which I believe adds balance to the article and reduces the POV. Someone else apparently restored the link to the COGwriter article on Justin. Presuming my comments and the link remain, the article will better reflect Justin overall. HistoryThD 16:07, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
The point of view remains. In its current form, the section that contains "controversial" quotes makes the matter worse, reading like a debate in which Justin's controversial statements are defended one by one drawing on scripture. This is not a neutral point of view. Durandir05:38, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
I disagree. The controversial quotes section takes things out of context, misrepresenting Justin and possibly his challengers. One example is the statement about the eighth day having a mysterious quality. As reflected in this entry, JM appears to espouse an eight day week or something off-the-wall like that. In context, however, he trounces the import of the eighth day in his discussion on circumcision, saying that, from a Christion POV, the Jewish circumcision is obsolete. See: CCEL. If anything the controversial quotes section should be binned unless the precise points of disagreement can be shown one-by-one. Otherwise, this section simply serves to confuse readers. Therefore, I have removed the section part and parcel, posting the Wiki-code here for archiving and further consideration:
==Some of Justin's controversial statements==
It should be pointed out that Justin made a variety of statements that have been viewed by some as controversial.
"For if you have fallen in with some who are called Christians, but who do not admit this [truth], and venture to blaspheme the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob; who say there is no resurrection of the dead, and that their souls, when they die, are taken to heaven; do not imagine that they are Christians." [1]
Jesus said whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. Matthew 10. "Christians who do not admit this truth" lines up with his words.
Concerning Christ, Justin taught, "And He was predicted before He appeared, first 5000 years before, and again 3000, then 2000, then 1000, and yet again 800; for in the succession of generations prophets after prophets arose." [2]
Luke 24- Jesus said all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. The prophet Micah (5:2) stated that the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem and that his going forths have been from old from everlasting.
Justin also claimed, "And then, when Jesus had gone to the river Jordan, where John was baptizing, and when He had stepped into the water, a fire was kindled in the Jordan" [3] It should be noted that there is no fire in mentioned in any biblical account of Jesus' baptism (see Matthew 3:1-17; Mark 1:9-11; Luke 3:21-22; John 1:29-34).
The disciples on the day of Pentecost describe the Holy Spirit as Fire. Acts 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Justin wrote, "Now, sirs," I said, "it is possible for us to show how the eighth day possessed a certain mysterious import, which the seventh day did not possess, and which was promulgated by God through these rites..." [4]
This quote is pertaining to the 1000 year millenial reign in the Book of Revelation.
Because of several statements that Justin made, Sabbatarian groups, such as the Living Church of God have considered that Justin was not a true saint, but a heretic.
Jesus himself was accused of being demon possesed and a blasphemer. Matthew 12 / Mark 14
Please do not repost this unless you can do it with fair balance to all sides of each debate. As a specialist in this area (Christian Origins and the Early Church), I shall plan to revisit this page. Alas, at the moment, I simply do not have the time to give it. I therefore count it better to have a slightly incomplete entry than to have a misleading one. //Alukasz 18:24, 12 May 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Name of Article

Shouldn't this article be called 'Justin the Martyr'? As it is thus presented it appears to be his surname. I propose changing the name to what I stipulated. Doktor Waterhouse 10:51, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. "Justin Martyr" is the name used by every present-day historian and theologian who references him. I'm not sure why or how this name developed, but that is what it is. (I do agree, however, that it sounds a little confusing!) David aukerman talk 15:26, 1 June 2007 (UTC)