Talk:Jorge Ferreira

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[edit] Quality/POV

This article needs a lot of work. Aside from the needed grammar cleanup (it's obvious that the main author doesn't speak English as his/her primary language), the article needs to be reworked and divided into sections so it will flow better. You may want to refer to some other musicians' articles to get an idea how to best format this. James Taylor or Neil Young may be good starting points.

Statements like "Jorge Ferreira becomes a legend in the United States, and in Portugal, everybody listens only him." and "He is famous in all Portuguese-speaking countries and areas." are pretty stong. This article reads like a press release. Statements like the above really need sources, otherwise this sounds more like an advertisement for the artist instead of a neutral encyclopedia article. ErockRPh 15:17, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Citations & References

See Wikipedia:Footnotes for an explanation of how to generate footnotes using the <ref(erences/)> tags Nhl4hamilton (talk) 09:28, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Very stange article

This is a very stange article.... This Jorge Ferreira is presented as a huge superstar in the Portuguese language universe and beyond. Never heard of him! And the history make one suspect... This is basically the work of anon IP editors! There are no sources, except for the guy's own site (in fact, all the statements, some of them bombastic, are all based on Ferreira's own statments about himself, wich are clearly porpagandistic!!), the language is clearly POV, etc... I blieve this is a vanity autobiographical article for a non-notable artist! I'm going to tag it accordingly and let's see what happens then. The Ogre (talk) 17:26, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

This guy doesn't even exist in the Portuguese language wikipedia! The Ogre (talk) 17:30, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
I am a bit baffled as well, but be careful with attacking the article based on the first impression. The article's editing history and some of the claims do not scale in favor of keeping the article, though. Not without extensive editing at least, and I as a member of WP: PT do say there are far more important articles in need of attention (Lusiadas come to mind). If notability is not confirmed, I say give it the axe.--Ivo Emanuel Gonçalves talk / contribs (join WP:PT) 00:42, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
I don't know if most other folks consider him to be a HUGE SUPERSTAR but at my house my mother has all of his records and CDs and for her he is a HUGE PORTUGUESE SUPERSTAR. Having said that, I believe that this article right here is quickly turning into one big Spam.  Nhl4hamilton | Chit-Chat  23:25, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Well... Your mother is not a reliable source! ;) The Ogre (talk) 17:55, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Hey now, that's my mother that you are speaking about. ;)  Nhl4hamilton | Chit-Chat  06:16, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Out of control

I have tried to help, but this seems to be way out of control. --70.109.223.188 (talk) 17:48, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Completely out of control. I already tried to report it to Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard‎#Jorge_Ferreira, saying "This article, that makes strange unsourced statements about this musician, and that goes into an extremely detailed curriculun vitae, and that seems to be the product of a very small group of editors, reads more like an advert and vanity page with spam PoV external links and sources. At least this is what is looks like to me! Can someone help, please, and give it a look? Thank you." Let's wait and see. But this article is not acceptable. It's basically just a megalomaniac advert of what, in fact, is a minor pimba musician. All the sources are POV and spam (of course his own site and editor companies are going to say he is the best and greates music superstar in the universe!) - if this continues I may propose it for deletion. The Ogre (talk) 17:54, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
I am not sure about delection, but if the article was reduced to 1/10th its current size, it still would be too long. Good luck. I removed a little of the peacock and unsourced claims, but needs major, major rewrite. --70.109.223.188 (talk) 17:57, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] In Portugal we've never heard of the guy.

As a Portuguese citizen I must say that we've never heard of this guy. Yodaki (talk) 18:03, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Indeed! The Ogre (talk) 18:48, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
In Portugal he is not very well known. In some pockets of North America he is though amongst the Portuguese-speaking population. Don't get me wrong though, I'm not defending this article here but all I'm saying here is some people have heard of him. The artist in question is not as big a "Superstar" though as he would like to believe he is.  Nhl4hamilton | Chit-Chat  06:19, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re-write in progress

I've undertaken a major re-write and I wanted some feedback before replacing the article. My version is here; please comment on this talk page. Thanks —Hello, Control Hello, Tony 16:56, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Hello Hello Control! Once again, thank you for the trouble you have put yourself trough on this article. It is a huge improvement. Still, there are issues... Let me list them:
  1. I still believe that the article you propose is excessively develloped for such an unimportant musician, and therefore it should be more trimmed - of course I know that many not very important subjects do sometimes tend to be overdevellped due to their fan-base... What can one do? Ah well...
  2. In the intro paragraph it is stated: "According to New Bedford's Standard-Times, he is among the top 20 artists in Portugal and has had dozens of gold and platinum albums in Portugal." - This is not true and must be highly re-phrased! Not that the New Bedford's Standard-Times didn't say it, they did say it - but I do not believe that a local United States newspaper, in a stub of an news article, is a reliable source for such an information! I made some searches:
    1. In Top 20 Portugal - list of songs with greatest radio time - he doesn't even appear;
    2. In Portugal Top 20 @ Top40-Charts.com - 40 Top 20 & Top 40 Music Charts from 25 Countries - he doesn't seem to appear in the Portuguese Top 20 (though I haven't searched all the individual years from 2001 to 2008); he is not in the full list (data base) of all the musicians that have had a single appearence in any of the charts; he only appears, searching the whole web site, in some furlong forum messages (where someone asked for some lyrics) or search result that mirror his own site or this Wikipedia article!
    3. If you google «Top 20 Portugal "Jorge Ferreira"», the first two results are from CDBaby - not a reliable source and clearly a blatant advert, and the third result is from this Wikipedia article!
    4. In CDGo and Amazon - both sales site and not a reliable sources, he does appear, but these are slaes pitches!
    5. In ArtistasPt - also a sales site and not a reliable source, but, still, a Portuguese site for Portuguese musicians that play the some type of music that Jorge Ferreira seem to play, he doesn't even show!
  3. The statement "Viva Fall River (Live Fall River), which yields a hit song in Portugal with the title track" has the same source as the one above, so it is not a reliable sourced fact.
  4. The statement "Ferreira was named the Portuguese Business Association's Man of the Year", which has the same source as the previous ones, lacks context - what Association is this? This is not a Portuguese organization in Portugal. Is it an United States organization? Local, State or National organization? As it is it looks like a huge honour from a national Portuguese business association - this can not be!
  5. The link to actor Pedro Lima links to a swimmer from Angola - not a Portuguese actor.
  6. The sections "Discography", "Appearances in musical projects" and "Videography" are too long and have some repetition (such as compilations).
I Hope my comments help! Again and again, Hello Control, thank you for your work and patience! Cheers! The Ogre (talk) 18:23, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
  • I agree about the questionable reliability of the information in the Standard-Times—it reads like they copied it out of a press release—which is why I wrote it the way I did. I'll add a credibility tag to it. The problem is that since the paper is technically a reliable source, we can't just chuck the information out. I only wish there were some way to refute the claims (e.g. is there a way to check album certification for Portugal like there is in the US via the RIAA website?) or, alternately, prove them true beyond a shadow of a doubt. The Man of the Year award is likely local (sounds like a local group) but again, the newspaper article doesn't specify so what can we do? I guess that if a consensus can be reached (here? WPP:MUSIC?) that the sales and chart claims need better referencing then we can go from there. —Hello, Control Hello, Tony 21:14, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sections by year

I changed the subsections to bold text, mainly to shorten up the table of contents. This still needs to be changed, though. It can easily be written as simply paragraphs, without the headers. Instead of "2003: Jorge Ferreira goes to France," It could begin, "In 2003, Ferreira went to France." And please change it all to standard past tense. -Freekee (talk) 18:42, 20 February 2008 (UTC)