Talk:Jonathan Swift

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[edit] Clean up

ok, the idea is this, print up a couple of fliers, once I get to school and start hanging posters around the English dept. so people can clean up these rather skimpy entries! Swift was a veritable superstar in his time.

[edit] Irish motifs in Swift`s novels

[edit] Citations

Currently in the main article there is this paragraph:

When he returned to Ireland in September he was accompanied by Stella — now twenty years old — and her friend Mrs. Dingley. They were ecstatic to see each other, and in the moment, they fornicated repeatedly. The church almost even revoked his ordinance as a priest for his premarital fun. These two even gave each other oral sex, which in the time, was looked down upon. It has been said that Esther "liked the cock." But these hormones are not uncommon for a twenty year old. There's a great deal of mystery and controversy over Swift's relationship with Stella. Many hold that they were secretly married in 1716. Although there has never been definite proof of this, there is no doubt that she was dearer to him than anyone else, and that his feelings for her did not change her throughout his life.

I checked four other sources/biographies on Jonathan Swift and none of them say anything about this. Where does this information come from? Regardless of the information being offending or not, information that is not obvious such as this, expecially presented in such a unprofessional manner ("liked the cock.") should be cited before added to the main article.

-- The guy who wrote that is a vandal. Look at 209.36.39.2's history. His IP address indicates he's a Christian military cadet (http://www.fuma.org/AboutFUMA/index.html). Either that, or they have been hacked. I have reverted it.

== Huh? ==jonathon swift is gay!!!!!!!!

The articles starts, "Jonathan Swift was born gay..." Really? Proof?

In the third paragraph of the biography section a quote states that Swift was entrusted with matters of unimportance. But the sentences leading to this would have logically led to Swift being entrusted with matters of importance. If the quote is correct then the preceeding sentences need to be revised. 4-24-06

[edit] Changes to the Writings Section

I have significantly revised and expanded the Writings section. This includes establishing categories (Major Prose, Essays etc., Poems, Sermons & Prayers, Miscellany), and greatly expanding the number of Swift's works listed, and providing external links to most of those works where possible. I also corrected some of the dates. The sheer breadth of links may be an issue--do you think there are too many? Should we stick to Swift's most important works and provide links to general collections only? I thought about doing this, but Swift texts are so scattered all over the internet one must do a great deal of textual sleuthing just to find a few different works. I thought it would be apropos to offer a more centralized listing. If someone disagrees please say so. I plan to revise some parts of the biography in the future as well, focusing on documentation. *Note: the revision is logged under 65.151.124.216 but it's mine: I forgot to log on prior to submitting it. TickleText 17:04, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] What's this mean?

"He soon, however, obtained the living of Laracor, Agher, and Rathbeggan..."

Might be good to clue readers what a "prebend" is too -- some specific kind of religious venue? Milo 08:03, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Oxford English Dictionary, my friend Fearwig 14:12, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Eh, for "prebend" I mean. I'm not sure the rest would be in there. *snicker* Fearwig 14:14, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Was Swift's political satire politically effective?

Was his satirical writing instrumental in obtaining legislation, social reform, or other change? I read somewhere an account answering this question, but couldn't find it again. Milo 08:03, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

jonathan swift is a cool writer dude.

[edit] Jon Swift

some people think that he was just a good writer but he was even better than people think he had written alot of books,poems, prayers and things like that most people don't care about other than writers. Also his satirical writing instrumental in obtaining legislation, social reform, or other change? I read somewhere an account answering this question, but couldn't find it again.

I think it would be hard to assess his actual impact on the political scene of his time...he was more of a political pampleteer, supporting causes where others were the primary actors. One case where he may be generally credited for effecting a change in policy is his "Drapier's Letters". Public opinion was already against the contract for the new coinage, but Swift provided a rallying point that helped force the withdrawal of the proposal. Here is one eminent opinion:

"Swift must be allowed for a time, to have dictated the political opinions of the English nation." Dr. Johnson [as quoted by Thackeray, The English Humourists]

As to his quality of his writing, here's a few good quotes:

"pray forgive an admirer of you, who ows to yr writings the love he bears to yr language..." Voltaire, letter to Swift, 14 December 1727

"One can only repeat what Scott says somewhere about Swift's style, perhaps the purest and strongest we have in the language. "Swift's style," said Scott, "seems so simple that one would think any child might write as he does, and yet if we try we find to our despair that it is impossible." XVI. Webster. ¤ 7. Webster's Developed Style. The Cambridge History of English and American Literature. 1907-21. http://www.bartleby.com/226/0707.html

"Swift's style is, in its line, perfect; the manner is a complete expression of the matter, the terms appropriate, and the artifice concealed. It is simplicity in the true sense of the word." Samuel Coleridge, Lecture on Style, 1818

"No better style in English prose was ever written, or can be," William Dean Howells, "Preface," Gulliver's Travels, 1913. [quoted by Noel Perrin, Dr. Bowdler's Legacy. New York : Atheneum, 1969, p. 224.]

"... Swift, the greatest writer of English prose, and the greatest man who has ever written great English prose..." T.S. Eliot, Clark Lectures, 1926 in The Varieties of Metaphysical Poetry. Faber & Faber, 1993

Ldjaffe 22:02, 14 April 2006 (UTC) ldjaffe

[edit] Poetry

he wrote "The Legions Club" too? Should it be added to the list of the Poetry he has wrote?


[edit] link

Hi, I would like to add an external link to the World of Biography entry

  • probably the most famous portal of biography to this article. Does anybody have any objections?

I took a look and it's a pretty poor biography... full of odd bits and pieces and badly in need of some copy editing ("Tripple Alliance").

There are plenty of better examples with some authority. One I recommend is from his alma mater at Oxford: http://alumniweb.hertford.ox.ac.uk/main/index.php?option=displaypage&Itemid=67&op=page&SubMenu=

Others include

Encyclopedia Britannica http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9380006?query=jonathan%20swift&ct=

St. Patrick's Cathedral http://www.stpatrickscathedral.ie/History_07_swift.htm

The History Channel http://www.historychannel.com/thcsearch/thc_resourcedetail.do?encyc_id=223501

Ldjaffe 22:03, 14 April 2006 (UTC) ldjaffe

please do not add this to the article, and please read the incident report before giving the go-ahead. This is spam and not link-worthy under WP:EL; the articles contain many distortions, lack citations, and contain nothing that wouldn't fit directly in the wiki article. a link to worldofbiography has been placed on over 70 talk pages by User:Jameswatt. thanks. --He:ah? 20:57, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Works

The Works section is a mess. Whoever wrote it seems very disrespectful of his subject, whom he insists on referring to as "Jonathan" rather than the more appropriate "Swift". I've deleted the redundant and sloppy biographical material that was there, but it requires a thorough going-over before it can be considered worthwhile. Ldjaffe 06:20, 16 April 2006 (UTC)ldjaffe

I think I bit off more than I can chew. Rather than try to "fix"what is already there -- I'm a little uncertain what to do with what others have written except when it is clearly wrong and there is so much I'd have to rework -- I've started a second version (take two). Ldjaffe 21:20, 16 April 2006 (UTC)ldjaffe

I've taken a pass at cleaning up the Works section...I incorporated the "second version" into the first, since it's confusing to have two different Works sections. I think it's more encyclopedic to have one section that we can fix than to try to maintain two parallel and competing sections. Fumblebruschi 23:00, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Absolute mess

Why is everything so ridiculously confused here? Even the talk page is screwy. Fearwig 14:16, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit. Jump in, Fearwig. Rizzleboffin 15:55, 1 May 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Gulliver's Travels NOT a children's book (or considered one)

As it says in the main body of the text. Printed in 1720'sm, there was at such a time no such thing as a 'children's book', it is a fairly recent (i.e. 19th or 20th C) construction. 'Confusion' may arise because there is an 'edited' children's edition that is largely divorced from Swift's original work.

Tsop 00:26, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Road

Their is a road named after him in Dublin , i feel this should be mentioned but couldnt really find a suitible place to add it (Gnevin 18:00, 27 September 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Anglo-

The term "Anglo-" is being abused in a lot of introductions. Given that the term can be confusing, it is not a nationality and is basically obsolete in this sense, it's not needed as an intro..he is shown to be of English origin later in the text. Furthermore, if we are to put "Anglo" in front of every person who has English origin in the intro, we should have balance and equality and use "British-Irish" in the intros of millions of people born in Britain with Irish blood or origin, which I think is also unnecessary. Well said maybe the Beatles and Oasis should be cited as Hiberno-Saxon if people continue to use the term Anglo-Irish.

[edit] External Links question

This may not be following the "Be Bold" theory of Wikipedia, but a question: The link to Modern satire in the style of Jonathan Swift (at http://www.swiftonia.com/) shows a website with a forum on it. In this forum are all of nine posts across nine topics.. and a sum total of, you guessed it, nine members. Since very little of the website even relates to Swift - more than half being forum rules, one being a verbatim copy of A Modest Proposal, another a copy of this Wikipedia article - I don't think it has much use in this article. Only two items on the forums even vaguely fit the category of "modern satire in the style of Swift." Thus, I'd suggest removing it. Barring anyone else bolder than I or a cogent argument for keeping it, I'll probably do so in the future. Shigernafy 06:36, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I'd go ahead and remove it. Guliolopez 10:11, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Novel, novelist?

I've only read his poetry so am no expert, but I got the impression Swift was also a novelist who wrote novels. The word novel does not appear in the text of the article, neither does novelist. If I am right, I think someone should add such terms where appropriate, eg in the very first sentence. Tommy-Chivs 14:51, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pseudonyms?

Did Swift actually publish ALL of his works under pseudonyms? Even Modest Proposal? This is a question, not a point of Error. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.206.33.27 (talk) 21:45, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] His supposed insanity

Just as an addition, it has been found that Swift had what is known today as Meniere's Syndrome, a disease of the inner ear which causes nausea, dizziness, temporary deafness, and extreme pain. This is what was thought to be insanity for a long time. In 1740 he suffered a paralytic stroke that caused aphasia and loss of memory. In 1742 he was declared incapable of caring for himself and was appointed guardians, he died 3 years later. I realize some of that is in the article, but I'm expounding upon most of it.Gotmesomepants (talk) 02:26, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] FAR notice

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