Talk:John Dowland
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[edit] Pronunciation
I have been playing Dowland's music for 20 years and have never heard his name pronounced to rhyme with "Roland". I've always pronounced it to rhyme with "cow-land" or, more like "cow-lnd", without much of a vowel in the second syllable. Is it possible that I have been getting it wrong all this time and that everyone I speak to is just humouring me by adopting my incorrect pronunciation too? Or are there several different pronunciations in use around the world....and is there evidence for which one is 'correct'?
- FWIW, I've also known and played his music for quite a long time, and I've never once heard Dowland rhyme with Roland. It's done either to rhyme with "Cowland", or pronounced "Doo-land" (I've noticed radio announcers are starting to do it this way). Antandrus (talk) 15:44, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
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- In the booklet of a CD that I own, it is claimed that his name was at that time pronounced to rhyme with Roland, enabling him – who always wallowed in self-pity for his unfortunate life – for his kind of wordplay in the title "Semper Dowland semper dolens". Does make sense to me.
Moreover, I reckon Lachrimae antiquae to not be based on Flow my teares, but just the other way around. He had this one original Lachrimae pavan and later added six more to it to form the Seven Teares, additionally writing Flow my teares and I Saw my lady weepe, which are supposed to belong together.
- In the booklet of a CD that I own, it is claimed that his name was at that time pronounced to rhyme with Roland, enabling him – who always wallowed in self-pity for his unfortunate life – for his kind of wordplay in the title "Semper Dowland semper dolens". Does make sense to me.
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- Interesting! My comment was based on an earlier version of this article which began with the statement "John Dowland (pronounced to rhyme with "Roland")" which is quite a sweeping statement to make without any supporting evidence. I think there are two considerations: one is the accepted modern pronunciation in the English-speaking world, and the other is how it was pronounced in Elizabethan times. With regard to the former, there is plenty of evidence for "non-Roland" pronunciation. In England, where I live, I generally hear his name rhyming with "cow-land" (though with a very weak vowel sound in the second syllable) and have certainly heard that usage on the BBC radio (who usually take a lot of care over pronunciation). I have even heard it used by people speaking the "Semper Dowland semper dolens" quote, too! I have also heard Doo-land, which Antandrus mentions, above. With regard to the Elizabeth pronunciation, that is more difficult, owing to the vowel shift that has taken place since that time. I'm certainly no expert in this area, but I understood that -ow- was pronounced more like -oo-, or possibly as a dipthong -uh-oo-. (Actually, in the fairly rural part of England where I live, the local accent still does this: "now" is pronounced "nuh-oo".) To cut a long story short, my vote would be to omit any reference to the pronunciation: I think the alternative would be to give a serious discussion on the subject, which would detract from the focus on the man and his music. Bluewave 09:51, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
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- My family pronounce it cow-land also -- although many phone callers assume "dough-lund" and similar. Jon Dowland 22:34, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
The name dowland is pronounced "dow" just like you would hear "dow jones" in the stock market or "dow" in endowment. It does ryhme with cow. The ending vowel is pronounced but it is used mildly. Similar to "lind" Joeldowland (talk) 14:25, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
- For what it's worth, when I've heard this question discussed by programmers on NPR classical music stations in California, the "Cow-land" variant has generally been disparaged, with opinions split on the other two. So it's interesting and amusing to see that there is so much support here for "Dow-land". I guess we shall have to ask Dr. Who to drop in on Mr. Dowland and get it straight from the horse's mouth. :) Cgingold (talk) 12:25, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
- The "Cow-land" pronunciation is certainly the prevalent version amongst musicians in England, though that does not make it historically correct, just as the modern pronunciation of [Henry Purcell]'s surname is generally thought to be wrong. The question of how the first syllable in "Dowland" corresponds to that of "dolens" is interesting, since this is usually pronounced "dollens" by English classicists. Semper "Dolland" semper "dollens" seems unlikely, however. TFM04 (talk) 11:14, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
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- I'll step in and muddy the waters by pointing out that pronouncing Dowland to rhyme with 'dolens' in the 'semper dowland semper dolens' phrase hinges upon how precisely the word 'dolens' was pronounced in the 16th century (and by which group of Latinists), and this is a highly contentious issue! InfernoXV (talk) 12:58, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
