Talk:John C. Dvorak

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[edit] Justifying my change, and general anger

Is anyone going to stand against the Dvorak bashing? I'm no fanboy either way, but this is getting way out of hand.

Original: On 9 June 2006, he explained to Dave Winer that, since Mac users are easily baited, he'll make these statements in order to increase traffic to his website, thus generating more advertisement revenue.[1]

My change: On 9 June 2006, he humorously explained to Dave Winer that he would bait Mac users in order to increase traffic to his website.[1] It should be noted that Dvorak often speaks in facetious, devil's advocate manner, making it sometimes hard to tell when he's serious or when he's not.

Justification: Watch the video (http://static2.podcatch.com/blogs/gems/support/dvorak.mov) and please tell me where "generating advertisement revenue" is ever mentioned? Dave Winer described the video as "...and he started telling a story about how he deliberately pisses Mac users off to get flow for his stories,". And "these statements"? Dvorak never specified any statements. That last line in my change/addition was the best way I could professionally word "the guy BSs a lot about this kind of stuff". I said 'humorously' because everyone was laughing.

If I'm wrong, please correct me here, but this biography is very much slanted against Dvorak. I'm willing to clean it up a bit more if this change is well recieved.

You appear to be speculating quite strongly about the video. Yes, there was a small amount of laughing in the background, but we have no idea why. Could it be because Winer is surprised that Dvorak is telling the truth on video? That Dvorak is being ironic? We don't know. For all we know, the laughter could be from some unrelated person nearby. The plain fact is that John speaks of baiting Mac users, and he sounds quite serious about it. Anything more than that is an imaginative exercise, given the information at hand. Of course, Dvorak and even Winer can retrospectively claim anything about what transpired, but such memoirs should not be taken at face value. — Yama 09:49, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Will people please stop removing this line? The fact is that Dvorak said those things, and the proof is on video. Dvorak fanboys can't ignore that this happened, and they certainly do not have the right to censor the truth from others. — Yama 11:14, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Trivia section

Trivia sections on Wikipedia are considered very bad form. All imformation within this section should be dispersed to apropriate places within the article. --The_stuart 18:15, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

  • Dvorak has been a long time critic of Apple Computer, even during his stint as a columnist for MacUser magazine. In 1984 he famously criticized their inclusion of a computer mouse with their computers, saying "There is no evidence that people want to use these things." In 1999, he ridiculed the iBook as "girly"[1], and was slammed not only by Mac afficionados, but also by female computing pundit Janelle Brown for reinforcing harmful gender stereotypes. In 2005 he suggested that recent good press about Apple was due to media bias, writing "With 90 percent of the mainstream writers being Mac users, what would you expect?". He is also famous for his claims that Apple would never release a Video iPod, the Mac brand should be discontinued, Apple switching to Intel chips will harm Linux, and Apple might be switching over to Windows and abandoning their Mac OS.[2]
  • Dvorak has inadvertently created a few tech running jokes — in a 2005 This Week in Tech episode[3] he claimed that, thanks to his hosting provider, he "gets no spam". This became a short-lived catchphrase and half-hearted chant among the audience. No mention was made of his false-positive rate (how much legitimate mail gets inappropriately deleted). Also, Dvorak's self-advertising (quoting the URL dvorak.org/blog whenever possible) has become an in-joke of the This Week in Tech crew.
  • Dvorak has expressed admiration for the Wikipedia concept and said in another This Week in Tech episode that he has made corrections to the Wikipedia article about himself. However, in December 2005 he predicted on his blog that "once Wikipedia becomes a target for [organized vandalism] the 'wiki' is dead. Well, at least on the grande [sic] scale."
  • Dvorak is a noted collector of Bordeaux wines and has been a tasting judge at various international events.
  • Dvorak appeared as primadonna version of himself in the Up in Smoke Video Podcast, a mini sitcom about a cigar shop.

Blog entry, Hillary Passes Out http://www.dvorak.org/blog/index.php?p=1249

YO QUIERO TACO B3LL11 Hillary image http://www.kak.ru/images/archive/8/gusev/Hillary.jpg

Could we add a picture of him on here? Perhaps a smaller version of this one: http://www.dvorak.org/pix/ He seems to give permission in a manner.

"speculative and provocative" -- that's putting it mildly.  :) — Stevie is the man! Talk | Work 19:00, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I'm not the biggest fan of the man, but the quotes put him in a very bad light. He has made some very stupid pronouncements, sure, but probably some insightful ones too.

As an Australian I personally dont know who this guys is, but yes looking at his quotes he seems like a dick. It's a fine line, clearly his quotes a factual... but is their suttle selectivism going to only bring out his bad quotes and is that considered a POV issue? Of course people could just include possitive quotes and them move the entire project over to wikiquote. But once again I dont know who he is, he might just BE a dick. :) - UnlimitedAccess 12:53, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
I agree with the anonymous user above. The quotes are designed to imply that he's a poor predictor of future trends, and that his views contradict the "typical" Wikipedian's views. In reality, he's made a lot of accurate predictions and a lot of good arguments too. He's just been in the field enough that he's rankled some feathers. - RyanGWU82 14:38, 21 August 2005 (EDT)
Dvorak fills the role of the curmudgenly old man in tech society. By the way, dvorak.org/blog... *wink* ;-) --Adun 16:27, September 11, 2005 (UTC)
Oh, come on, he's now convinced that Apple is preparing to ditch OS X for windows... I've never seen a good prediction by him. But if you can find one, sure, it *deserves* a quote :-)
He was right about Apple adopting Intel... - UnlimitedAccess 09:32, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
IIRC, he spoke of Apple adopting Itanium, and possibly even Opteron. He was wrong on both counts. He was wrong on a lot of other fundamental things as well. — Yama 11:16, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Since when is it considered bad form to post trivia? It's a common thing, as far as I can tell. I think it's pretty bad that there's no criticism of his work in the article anymore, especially since he's such a polarizing figure. My feeling: Rework it if you must, but don't take the trivia section out. That's some good information that you just removed from the article.

I'm almost considering adding the trivia section back in myself because the article lost quite a bit of information as a result of its removal. - Stick Fig 20:35, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Birthdate?

What is his birthdate?

Refering to this page [1] he was born in 1952 in Los Angeles, Calif. --Wolny 19:18, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Czech ?

Is he a Czech immigrant? --Sheynhertzגעשׁ״ך 11:57, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

No, his last name is pronounced in an Americanized English way, /'dvoræk/, not /ˈdvor̝aːk/ like Antonín Dvořák. I doubt he would do that if he were actually Czech. --Saforrest 22:51, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

But its likely he is a descendant of Czech immigrants- Many immigrants in the early part of the twentieth century were given Anglisized names by impatient immigration officials at Ellis Island and elsewhere. Cuvtixo 01:36, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Myspace?

Is his myspace account real? http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=39317572&Mytoken=9E5DCCB2-1131-1041-31626DE32C32E8C775833097

Hah-ha! No, that is a phoney.

[edit] Home?

In This Week in Tech, Dvorak hints at the fact that he lives in the East Bay, meaning the eastern suburbs of San Francisco. This needs to be confirmed, but it contradicts the main article that lists his homes in the Seattle area. -- gglockner

No, actually, he hints that he might live in Berkeley, which is not a suburb of any city. Catamorphism 09:23, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
East Bay would mean the eastern coast of the bay area (Fremont, Hayward, Union City, Oakland, Emeryville, Berkeley, /etc /etc 68.116.93.138 04:07, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Still the article is wrong and should be changed. He does have a vacation home in Port Angeles though. - CaptainAmerica 18:21, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

This section is still wrong. I'm 80-90% sure he spends most of his time near Berkeley, CA (Albany? El Cerito?) My guess is that he spends the school year in the San Francisco Bay Area, and has a summer home in Washington state. -- gglockner 06:38, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WP:SELF

This article seems to horribly fail WP:SELF at the bottom, with a less-than-warranted paragraph regarding John's opinion of Wikipedia, especially with the phrase "this article". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wesley Moy (talk • contribs) .

Yes it does. I believe the operative word is "sofixit", which I've just done. --Saforrest 22:53, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The man is a visionary!!

Just kidding, but I got your attention!! This article sorely needs a list of things Dvorak has claimed to demonstrate what a complete and utter troll he is. - Abscissa 19:48, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

True, this should be included as well. --Siva1979Talk to me 20:01, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Another vote for Abscissa's proposal. I was amazed to see that the article did not list at least some of his outrageous statements. Any takers? Porfyrios 10:20, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I see that since my last visit to this page, someone has added some hilarious statements by this first-class idiot. Keep up the great work!! - Abscissa 04:24, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Category: Troll Journalists or Category:Useful Idiot anyone? Project2501a 21:59, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Controversial statements

I think the controversial statements sections should be moved to Wikiquote. It would be good if someone could explain what makes them "controversial." Some seem obvious if one has familiarity with the topics, like the mouse one, but others aren't so obvious, for instance the one about CPU use. Theshibboleth 04:33, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

They're controversial because there are a slew of people that do not like Dvorak or his writings. So, rather than explaining why he is disliked, it is best just to give examples of his biased bigheaded opinions.

I think the section should be revised. Just because he said something that sounds stupid in retrospect does not make it controversial. At least, it's no more controversial than a weather man's incorrect prediction. Unless someone can prove that it was a controversial statement at the time, then something should not be labeled a 'controversial' statement.--MythicFox 16:59, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
I nuked this section. Please tell me why funny statements (GTA, the "no spam" running joke on TWit), a couple of examples of bad predictions (the mouse, cable modems) and a zero context statement (MS is dead) are examples of controversial statements. Please do better. And with sources, people. Not sources of the statement, but proof of "controversy". 68.116.93.138 04:46, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Attended University of California

Which one? Berkeley, UCLA, etc.

  • University of California usually implies Berkeley... it is the only UC school referred to as such. --Kid moxie 00:07, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
  • It may imply Berkeley, but wikis shouldn't imply anything. It should be expressed. If I stated that I went to the University of Wisconsin, you would imply I meant the Madison campus and that would be untrue. If anyone has proof of which campus Mr. Dvorak attended/graduated from, that info should be added.Kermit814 19:00, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Robin Williams?

Not familiar with Dvorak or the statement in question, but it seems much more likely that he means Robin Williams (writer) rather than the comedic actor.

  • Nope, they were discussing Robin William's onstage presence and Dvorak said something like (I'm paraphrasing) "You know he's really shy in person...He was the first person to show me chat rooms. He came over to my house and we went on CompuServe and they had this thing called a CB Simulator where you pretended to be on a CB radio." Robin Williams is a computer and video game enthusist, so it isn't unlikely that he showed Dvorak the his first chat room. - CaptainAmerica 00:25, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Personal

Doesn't John C live primarily in Albany, CA? (next to Berkeley) --jimmied999 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What about his ALL-CAPS BOLD namedropping?

I recall Dvorak's magazine colums, IIRC in PC Magazine, in which he would make certain words, usually the names of computer industry luminaries, BOLD ALL-CAPITALS. This was in the 1980's, and I haven't seen this done in what little writing I've seen of his in recent years. But I thought this was an odd "feature" of his columns, and as memorable as his strong opinions. It was almost his trademark, and I wonder when he stopped doing that. Perhaps someone with more familiarity and patience (and access to older magazines) could research this and add it to the article. Benbradley 04:21, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

He uses the bold text in his "Inside Track" article for PC Magazine. I'm not sure what its all about. It doesn't seem to fit any pattern as far as I can tell.--janus657 16:40, 20 April 2007 (UTC)}}

[edit] Wine and Food Critic in Trivia

I remember listening to an episode of "This Week in Tech" where Leo Laporte makes mention that Dvorak "used to" be a Food and Wine Critic. Dvorak confirmed it on the show. I'll see if I can come up with the episode when I can to complete the needed citation. Does anybody else recall this statement, maybe the year it happened? That'd help narrow it down.--Low2snow (talk) 01:26, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
UPDATE- Found a reference to Dvorak being a wine critic on a Wired article from February 1994 archived on Wired.com. The Article. This is citable, right?--Low2snow (talk) 02:52, 6 January 2008 (UTC)