Talk:Jekyll Island

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Contents 1 Conspiracy? 2 accuracy 3 citations 4 More info

[edit] Conspiracy?

I thought the Conspiracy section was, amazingly, too POV on both sides -- first it dismisses "conspiracy theories" and then starts talking about "stealing" the 1912 election... I tried to make it as NPOV as possible. Any source for the Forbes quote? How about the Wilson quote -- how do we know he was referring to the Fed? Also, all that stuff about JFK does not belong in this article -- maybe somewhere else, but not here. I tried to keep the section focused entirely on what happened at Jekyll Island and not the larger issue of the Federal Reserve, 1912 elections, etc., all of which can be found elsewhere. Afelton 15:42, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

I'm glad you've worked on the NPOV. Bubba73 (talk) 16:39, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Well, Afelton and Bubba, I tried to explain both sides of the story. It's called being fair and balanced. I can appreciate you wanting to make it as NPOV as possible, but the 1912 election was directly affected by the events at Jekyll Island. It's historical fact. You say "altered." I say "stolen." The Forbes quote was found via a Google search. Wilson's "I have betrayed my country" quote came from a video I've got called "Masters of the Universe" video. Don't laugh! It's not the Dolph Lundgren He-Man movie. Download it. I can understand your point about the JFK assassination, but I have reason to believe that event happened because he was going to break up the Federal Reserve in addition to neutering the CIA and bringing troops home from Vietnam. Allow me to thank you for using the phrase "central banking," though. GeorgeC 06:16, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

The producer of that video is "UFO Central Home Video". Its accuracy is highly doubtful. There is no evidence of a link to the JFK assassination.. Bubba73 (talk) 14:26, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

I don't disagree that the events at Jekyll Island may have altered the 1912 election, but think that the word "stolen" is POV -- it has negative connotations and if your definition of stolen is that a small group of people had undue influence, then just about every election would fall under that description, I think. As for the Forbes quote--I think it is a good quote and probably authentic; I found a number of web sites with the same quote citing it as "CURRENT OPINION", December, 1916, p. 382. I don't know if this is perfect validation because they all have exactly the same quote and citation style, indicating that one site is the source of it, but maybe someone has access to Forbes archives... Also, I remain convinced that, even if one accepts the JFK assassination theory, it should not be in this article -- it is about the creation of the Fed... Afelton 17:17, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Afelton said: "I don't disagree that the events at Jekyll Island may have altered the 1912 election, but think that the word "stolen" is POV -- it has negative connotations..."

It also had a negative impact on the nation. -GC

Afelton said: "and if your definition of stolen is that a small group of people had undue influence, then just about every election would fall under that description, I think."

BINGO! We have a winner, folks! -GC

[edit] accuracy

Can someone check on the accuracy of the conspiracy section? The source of it is highly doubtful, and at one time it included the JFK assassination. Bubba73 (talk) 14:33, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Check out the reference I added to the Minn. Fed's web site -- doesn't talk about 1912 election or JFK, but the basic facts seem to be in agreement. May I take off the accuracy disputed tag? Afelton 17:16, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

OK, basic facts don't seem to be in dispute. I thing that the article originally said that the 1912 presidential election was "stolen", which is stretching it. Now it says that it "influenced" it, which is OK. The link to JFK is pretty far-fetched. The UFO tape is unlikely to be a good source of accurate information.

However, it seems to me that the bulk of the former "conspiricy" section should go under Federal Reserve instead of Jekyll Island, since it is about the Reserve, not Jekyll. The fact that the meeting did take place on Jekyll certainly should be here, but the rest of it is commentary on the Reserve. (The meeting could have been anywhere.) The article is about Jekyll, not the Reserve. Bubba73 (talk) 18:07, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

PS, about 2/3 of the article about Jekyll Island is about the Fed Reserve. I think that indicates that most of the section should go somewhere else, probably Federal Reserve. I think it should say who was at the meeting, when it took place, and that it was fundamental to the formation of the Fed, but the rest of the material should be elsewhere (with a link to it, of course). Bubba73 (talk) 18:20, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

I did post who was at the meeting: Nelson Aldrich, A.P. Andrews, Paul Warburg, etc. -GC

Hmmm... yes and no. I agree it is more properly about the Fed than about Jekyll Island per se. However, the history of the Fed is very long and it might make sense to have a sentence or two about it in History of Central Banking in the United States and more detail here (i.e., the status quo). I think we all agree that the JFK stuff is tangential and doesn't belong here. Feel free to edit parts you still think aren't factual; I just took a first stab at it. Afelton 19:04, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

I just moved a large section of the information pertaining to the Jekyll Island Club to the Jekyll Island Club article where I believe it is more appropriate. Thanks to whoever wrote the bulk of that information, it was well-organized and quite helpful.

torq (talk) 20:36, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] citations

Hi guys. I just noticed that there are lots of citations missing in the text. I added a "citation needed" tag where I think it's most crucial (to start with): namely the quotation of Forbes. FeelFreeToBe (talk) 02:19, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I moved this quote to the Jekyll Island Club article and cited the proper source.

torq (talk) 20:36, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] More info

Hi. I thought the page was pretty accurate and well done. I am fortunate enough to live on the island, and I noticed some omissions. The South Beach Park no longer has two boardwalks (that was a while ago!) with one being replaced by an observation deck. I think they did this to preserve the dunes.

Also, there is a lot of heat and light lately about controversies on the island surrounding redevelopment. The JIA (Jekyll Island Authority) has had its lease extended by 40 years, but has not extended its subleases to the island residents yet (!).

Three of the island's hotels have been bulldozed to the ground (no great loss, let me assure you) and newer and larger hotels are scheduled to be built in their place shortly.

One of the most controversial aspects is the retention of "Linger Longer Communities" to tear down the old convention center (and 1960's Jetsonian icon) in favor of larger and clubbier looking convention center and hotel-condominium project on what was once a public beach access near the original golf course. This plan will require moving some beach roads inland, making the island more like neighboring St. Simons (where the water can rarely be viewed from anywhere other than a million-dollar waterfront home). It will also limit access and parking for many of Georgia's working class vacationers who flock to the island in the summer months.

See: http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/091607/news_20070916041.shtml

(among many other articles on the subject).

There are other articles as well. I tried to add a paragraph with a balanced view on this (I am new to this, so feel free to edit it). The island will be changing fairly dramatically in the next few years.

This is nothing new, of course. Developers have had their eye on the island for years. One proposed removing the airport and replacing it with condos or a casino. I think the only thing that saved this was that some fairly wealthy people and Georgia government officials like to fly down from Atlanta in their private planes to play golf. Jekyll has a long history since 1949 as being a plaything of government officials, I'm afraid.

Other proposals were to count the golf courses as "undeveloped land" so as to increase the amount of available land for development. Another proposal was to take the soccer fields and 4H center for beachside condo development. This met with resistance, as the beach is home to nesting turtles and beach development would destroy the nesting sites. Proponents have argued that the number of turtles nesting on Jekyll is not very significant compared to nearby Cumberland Island and other, less occupied island.

In the south end (St. Andrews, or the formerly black part of the island) there are several lots that were never sold off or built upon. It is possible that these may be developed in the future.

FWIW.72.155.53.202 (talk) 22:05, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

I think it would be good to add that stuff to the article. Bubba73 (talk), 23:10, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the compliment on the article. I took all the books on Jekyll and the Georgia coast off my bookshelf and fleshed this article out piece by piece, but a few of my best books are more than 5 years old, so please revise anything that's inaccurate.

I agree that there should be a section on redevelopment, but I feel that finding citeable sources may be difficult. I know the redevelopment is a ridiculous topic, the politicians and JIA seem to be acting more in the interest of profiteering, rather than naturalism, and have grandly disturbing plans for renovation. I even read a quote from one Georgia politician who was saying that the beaches needed to undergo repair, including 'removing all those dead trees on the north end'. I also find it somewhat alarming that the relatively small numbers of sea turtles who nest on Jekyll would be considered negligable. If anyone can work this in objectively, it should be done.

torq (talk) 04:08, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

A reliable source is important. I live in the county but I don't know much about it except what I hear second-hand. Bubba73 (talk), 22:39, 6 April 2008 (UTC)