Talk:Irvington, New York

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[edit] Wolfert's Roost

The article should mention something about "Wolfert's Roost," the authoritative book on the history of Irvington. (unsigned -- posted 23:40, January 3, 2006 by 151.204.159.136)

• The problem with that is that "Wolfert's Roost" is long out of print. unfutz 03:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Irvington as "Orthodox Jewish Community"

Although Irvington may have a sizable and growing Orthodox Jewish population, it is not an "Orthodox Jewish Community." Please stop adding this as a category until you present some factual basis for it. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) (talk/cont) 04:44, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

In a post on my talk page, the editor who's been adding this category says:

I myself know of at least 20 Orthodox Jewish families living in Irvington. Each family has an average of 5 people per unit. That's at least 100 Orthodox Jews--- that I know of!

The editor's estimate of 100 people would represent, at best, about 1.5% of the population, which, while it is certainly enough to be considered a "community", is not significant enough to consider Irvington, itself, an "Orthodox Jewish community".

In short, Irvington may contain a budding Orthodox Jewish community, but it itself is not one, and should not be categorized as such. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) (talk/cont) 08:30, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Here's the discussion from my talk page:

I see you are quite persistent with editing the Irvington, NY page, removing the label "Orthodox Jewish Community." Let me take a wild guess, you are not an Orthodox Jew. You're most likely not even Jewish. If you are, I can see why the Jewish community is persecuted. If you're not, then thank G-d! As an Orthodox Jew myself, and as a resident of Irvington, New York, I can say that there has been a rather significant, and noticeable influx of Orthodox Jews into the Rivertowns. Why are Orthodox Jews coming to Irvington? First off, it is very close to the Chabad of the Rivertowns, located a little over a mile away in Dobbs Ferry. Now, Dobbs Ferry is not as nice as Irvington, which is more community-oriented and neighborhoody. I myself know of at least 20 Orthodox Jewish families living in Irvington. Each family has an average of 5 people per unit. That's at least 100 Orthodox Jews--- that I know of! Irvington's population is, as you should know- since you check this page apparently every five minutes (GET A LIFE!) , not large. However, it has a significant Jewish population. Let's say, and this is an underestimate, 1500. 100 of those Jews are Orthodox--- at least! That is not an Orthodox Jewish community? Maybe for places like Brooklyn, who have over a quarter million Jews, a large number of Jews is considered a "community." But for Irvington, we have our own "community" in this small town. Hopefully we'll establish some kosher stores--- we're planning a small Kosher deli. But we do not need to do that to prove that we are here, we are a community, and we are proud of it. For G-d's sake, stop editing the page. It's helpful for other Jews to know that Irvington's Orthodox community is expanding. If you're against it, then you are using wikipedia to advance some kind of anti-semitic agenda. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.198.130.133 (talk) 20:54, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

I was born in Tarrytown (Phelps), and grew up and went to school in Irvington. My family still lives there. While there may be a growing Orthodox Jewish population in Irvington, Irvington, as a whole, is not an "Orthodox Jewish Community." Please stop in adding it as a category, which has no basis in fact. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) (talk/cont) 04:50, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

P.S. What gave you a clue that "Ed Fitzgerald" isn't an orthodox Jewish name?

Here's the definitive proof, according to the leading Jewish synagogue directory online: Irvington NY has two Orthodox shteibls, which are close-knit synagogues that are strictly traditional. I attend services at Chabad, and forgot to mention the existence of these two synagogues, although this information is public and should have been considered a while ago. They are: Der Yiddisher Shul / Irvington Synagogue and Ohel Torah v'et Tzion HaAdamah. here's the "definitive proof" link- http://maven.co.il/synagogues/C3329Y42022RX —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.198.130.133 (talk) 19:31, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

First, this discussion should be taking place on the discussion page at "Irvington, NY", not here. Please put any further comments there. Second, please sign your comments -- use four tildes (~) to automatically generate your name and date. Third, and most important, your "definitive proof" is anything but. It once again goes to show that there is an Orthodox Jewish community within Irvington, not that Irvington itself is an Orthodox Jewish community. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) (talk/cont) 19:51, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

For the reasons stated, that the evidence presented goes toward there being a small Orthodox Jewish community within Irvington, and not towards showing that Irvington itself is an Orthodox Jewish community, I've once again removed the category. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) (talk/cont) 20:43, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

The existence in Irvington of three mainstream Christian churches (Roman Catholic, Episcopalian and Presbyterian) wouldn't justify categorizing Irvington as a "Christian community", despite the fact that, most probably, the majority of the population is Christian, nor would categorizing it as a "Caucasian community" be justified, despite the fact that the majority of the population is white. None of those categories -- Christian, white or Orthodox Jewish -- describe the character of the village as a whole, which is why they are unjustified. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) (talk/cont) 10:12, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

The same argument covers Dobbs Ferry and Westchester County, neither of which are "Orthodox Jewish communities" byt any stretch of the imagination. I've removed the category from them as well. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) (talk/cont) 12:05, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Further comments transferred from my talk page:

What the fuck? Is Brooklyn considered an Orthodox Jewish community? Of course. Is Brooklyn ENTIRELY JEWISH? Of course not. But is there an Orthodox Jewish community WITHIN Brooklyn? Of course. The same can be said for Scarsdale NY, Merrick NY, Los Angeles, even Jerusalem! All these cities feature large Orthodox Jewish communities, but the cities themselves are not exclusively Orthodox. The Orthodox communities are thus WITHIN these cities. All "Communities" are part of a large community, the city itself. Up until your last comment, you seemed to be an anti-semitic bastard who had no basis for deleting the Orthodox label. Now you're a dumb anti-semitic bastard, as I have not in my entire life heard anything as stupid as your last statement. If people like you are proof reading and "fact"-checking Wikipedia, this site is in serious trouble. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.172.33.89 (talk) 03:35, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Please put your comments where they belong, on the "Irvington, NY" talk page. I will transfer your comment there, and no longer respond to them here. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) (talk/cont) 10:56, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Ignoring your insults and provocations, the answer is that Brooklyn is not considered to be an Orthodox Jewish community, although it does contain Orthodox Jewish communities. The problem is that the category is not "Locales that have Orthodox Jewish communities" or "Places with sizable Orthodox Jewish populations" but "Orthodox Jewish communities", and as long as that is what it is called, it is not properly applicable to Irvington, Dobbs Ferry or Westchester -- or Brooklyn, for that matter. Change the name of the category to be properly descriptive of what you seem to want to categorize, and I'll have no problem with it, but as long as it remains as it is, I will have to continue removing it, as it is not appropriate. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) (talk/cont) 11:04, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

In an attempt to short-circuit another round of probably fruitless discussion, let me attempt to be totally clear: I have absolutely no objection to Irvington (or Dobbs Ferry, etc.) being labelled as a place that has a significant Orthodox Jewish population. (I don't know for a fact that this is the case, but I'm willing to accept the proffer that it is.) What I object to, and will continue to block, is the categorizing of Irvington and other places as "Orthodox Jewish communities", when that is not the case.

It seems to me, then, that the solution is to alter the category so that it properly describes what is being labelled. Once that is done, you'll get no more objection from me. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) (talk/cont) 11:26, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

I've changed the name of the category from "Orthodox Jewish communities in the United States" to "United States places with Orthodox Jewish communities" and have updated all links and retored the link here and in "Dobbs Ferry" and "Westchester" Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) (talk/cont) 08:16, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Unverifiable information in "Religion" section

I've commented out the following paragraph from the "Religion" section:

In addition, there are two Orthodox Jewish shteibls, which are close-knit strictly traditional synagogues: Der Yiddisher Shul/Irvington Synagogue and Ohel Torah v'et Tzion HaAdamah.<:ref>Maven Search, List of Synagogues in Irvington<:/ref> The majority of Irvington residents are Christian, but the Jewish population is growing, with some estimates putting it at over 30%.<:ref>In the last decade, the Jewish population of Westchester County experienced a boom, with the total Jewish population growing by over 40%.<:/ref>

I've checked the citation given for this, the listing on MavenSearch, and found that the address for the first synagogue was an apartment building, and the phone number for it was disconnected. The address for the second synagogue doesn't specify whether it's at North Broadway or South Broadway, but neither address seems to exist. Also, it appears that the only thing required to put a listing on MavenSearch is an e-mail address, so it really cannot be considered to be a reliable source.

If someone has a reliable source to back up the existence of these two shteibls, please provide it and uncomments the material from the article. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) ^{(talk / cont)} 23:04, 24 February 2008 (UTC)