Talk:Iran

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portal of iran


  • The article needs to be reedited. There are many grammatical errors and grammatically awkward sentences. In some sections (such as ‘History',) it is obvious the article was written by a nonnative English speaker. It almost sounds like a translation.
  • Shorten article
  • Confirm all image copyrights and licensing
  • Complete references
    • Continue to police for unsourced images

Contents

[edit] Wildlife of Iran

I was thinking of adding these few lines to the Geography of Iran (section) along with this picture (source: Iran/French/FA & Wildlife of Iran):

Eurasian Lynx
Eurasian Lynx

"Bears in the mountains, wild sheep and goats, gazelles, wild pigs, wolves, jackals, panthers, Eurasian lynx, and foxes abound. Domestic animals include sheep, goats, cattle, horses, water buffalo, donkeys, and camels. The pheasant, partridge, stork, Eagles and falcon are native to Iran."

SSZ (talk) 22:35, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Please remove the picture of the Lynx. The map of Iran was in just the right place. We don't need a picture for everything mentioned on th page. There are enough pictures in that section.Ardeshire Babakan (talk) 21:05, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

There is no need to remove the picture for that reason. Just move it around. I have rephrased the last paragraph as per recommendation below.

[edit] Bordering Countries

It say that Iran borders Russia and Kazahkstan, I can see this being true if you count the water border of the Caspian Sea, but in the Caspian Sea Article, it doesn't say anything


Tanneropia (talk) 00:06, 12 April 2008 (UTC)Tanneropia

[edit] dating back to 7000 BC.

Iran is home to one of the world's oldest continuous major civilizations, with historical and urban settlements dating back to 7000 BC And Human settlement on the territory of Iran dates back to at least 9000 BC.

(Amirmk (talk) 00:56, 19 April 2008 (UTC))


Yeah but who's gonna find that among that amount of redundant rubbish under history section? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Micronie (talk • contribs) 11:08, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

  • As for 7000 BC, I made a similar remark on this talk page (now archived) which remained unheeded. Consider, for instance, the relatively recent findings in Darreh-ye Bolāghi, which belong to the Bakun period, corresponding to the 5th millennium BC. For details consult: Iran: Darre-ye Bolāghi, Deutsches Archäologisches Institut. --BF 17:50, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Media Supertask

dear super task your I cannot open the link http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9371723 but the other one states "petty Median chieftain subject to the kingdom of Mannai in modern Iranian Azerbaijan; later tradition made him the founder of the Median empire. " It says that he was first a subject of Mannai but then managed to establish (his own) Median empire. Also in the Irnian books is he recognized as the establisher of the Median empire. The confusion comes [put simply] because it is assumed that after a period Median throne got conquered( by the Scythians probably), but the Median royal clan again defeated them. See Diakonov on the History of Media.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 01:24, 22 April 2008 (UTC) See my talk page for more--Babakexorramdin (talk) 10:55, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

This sentence might need further investigation: "Iran is home to one of the world's oldest continuous major civilizations, with historical and urban settlements dating back to 4000 BC" - the site at Göbekli Tepe is said to be from 10.-11.000 BC - and that's the responsible archaelogist who says so..

Jan Eskildsen ¨¨¨¨ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.57.196.2 (talk) 14:21, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Iran in the Dutch Empire

Hello everyone! There is a discussion at Talk:Dutch Empire#Request For Comment: Map, because user Red4tribe has made a map of the Dutch Empire (Image:Dutch Empire 4.png) that includes significative parts of Iran. Would you like to comment? Thank you. The Ogre (talk) 15:21, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

New Map http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Dutch_Empire_new.PNG http://www.colonialvoyage.com/ square=tradingpost (Red4tribe (talk) 16:33, 26 April 2008 (UTC))

Still OR, POV and unsourced (yours is not not a credible source). Please discuss stuff at Talk:Dutch Empire#Request For Comment: Map. This was just a request for comment, not a discussion. Thank you. The Ogre (talk) 16:38, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
the map is not correct, not only with regard to Iran but also elsewhere. In general the situation was like this: 1- there were lands which were controlled by Dutch, for example the Netherlands but also Batavia (Java). 2- There were "handelsposten" along the coasts that were controlled by the Dutch, but the "achterland" were not controlled. finally 3- there were places which were not under Dutch control but the Dutch were there for trade for example places in Iran and Japan.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 01:47, 27 April 2008 (UTC)


[edit] New Images & Policy

1. Mr. Samadi has proposed this picture for the demography section:

Changes in population of Iran
Changes in population of Iran

I think it is good and I propose to replace the pyramid of age with this picture (basically same info but easier to understand.)

2. Somebody else wanted to replace another picture: Generally speaking and for the future do we want to keep consensus as a rule before uploading new images on Iran's page? Please share your views, otherwise I will assume we keep it as it is now: that is, to discuss any new image on this talk page FIRST so people can comment on it. SSZ (talk) 22:47, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

I have no specific opinion as to whether the picture proposed by Mr Samadi should replace another one. However, if it is decided to add the proposed picture to the main text, I suggest that the 6 zeros of the population numbers be suppressed; to compensate for this, either along the vertical axis or in the caption be mentioned that the numbers along the vertical axis are in units of 1000,000. As it stands, the six zeros are redundant and unnecessarily take too much space. --BF 21:14, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
I agree. we should replace 80,0000,0000 with "80K", 70,000,000 with "70K" and so on. However, I let Mr. Samadi change his file and upload the new image (if he wants to).SSZ (talk) 07:02, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
Ok, I will change it. But, when I want to create that image, I followed the pattern used in these images: Image:US Population Graph - 1790 to 2000.svg & Image:Historical population of NYS.png. These images are used in Demographics of the United States & New York, respectively. Thanks. --M samadi (talk) 07:40, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
Dear M samadi, the examples to which you refer are in my opinion not really conform the prevailing standards: not only do the six zeros convey no meaningful information, they are even visually disturbing (this fact notwithstanding, please note that the lengths of the numbers amount to one-third of the total length of the actual diagram along the horizontal axis, which make the diagram to look rather disproportionate). SSZ has suggested to make "80,000,000" into "80K", etc. Firstly, "K" stands for "Kilo", 103, so that "80K" would mean "80,000" (incidentally, the standard symbol for "Kilo" is "k" and not "K"); "M" (and not "m"), denoting "Mega", 106, is the symbol to be used. Secondly, it is not necessary to let "M" follow all numbers, which would be replacing one redundancy with another; letting the highest number (in the present case "80") to be followed by "M" would suffice. However, since a good number of people would not know what exactly "M" stands for, I suggest one of the following two options: (1) Add a vertical text to the vertical axis, such as "[Million]", or (2) indicate in the caption that "population numbers are in units of 1,000,000", or something similar. Incidentally, the diagram proposed by M samadi very nicely shows three distinguishable population-growth rates, corresponding, roughly, to pre-revolution, war-years and post-war-years periods; it seems that the rate of the post-war years nearly coincides with that of the pre-revolution years. M samadi: could you please determine (numerically, using linear regression) the slopes of the last-mentioned three straight lines and indicate the results in the caption of the figure? Kind regards, --BF 09:30, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
Which one do you prefer? Image:Iran Population 1880-2005.JPG or Image:Iran Population Change 1956-2006.JPG? I can adjust other settings such as color or gridlines. But one of them includes the estimated values since 1881. I used the persian version of the latter in this article --M samadi (talk) 12:49, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
Dear M samadi, my preference goes to the first diagram (i.e. the one covering the period 1880-2005) for the simple reason that it is more complete and therefore more valuable. One suggestion however. Although personally I have no problem with the number representation along the time axis, I can imagine that some people might have problem with it. Consequently, I should like to suggest that you present years in intervals of twenty years so as to create space for numbers to be presented in the usual manner (in this way, only the years 1880, 1900, ..., 2000 will be shown). There is also the possibility of showing the numbers obliquely (let us say at 45 degrees). Could you please also make the dots (or circles) slightly larger so that the distinction between the interpolation curve and the actual data points becomes more evident? One other thing: you might also consider the possibility of showing the derivative with respect to time of the interpolation curve as an inset — the rate of growth or of decline (specifically the locations of near discontinuities in the rate) invariably signify social/economic/natural events that one can easily identify. For instance the kink at 1978 really coincides with the pre-revolution time when many people were staying at home (because of the strikes), and consequently, well, procreating. I very vividly remember that time, when almost every woman seemed to be either pregnant or mother of a new-born baby. Further, by the end of the WWI, Iran suffered from a severe famine (which was partly, but not entirely, a result of profiteering of some merchants and middlemen). I believe the kink in the data points just past 1920, signifies this famine (although counter-intuitive, when humans are faced with mortal danger they reproduce more, apparently to save their race/genes). With kind regards, --BF 14:15, 8 May 2008 (UTC).
Thanks for your suggestions. I agree with your idea about oblique numbers. Because if I present years in intervals of 20 years, the end of the x-axis (year 2010) remains without number that is a little unsuitable. I will also increase the size of dots in the diagram. But about the line slope and attributing the changes to events, I think there is not enough space in the diagram to present so much information. I think it is better to analyze the graph in the article. Do you have any idea about the color? white is better or gray?--M samadi (talk) 14:41, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
Dear M samadi, I go for grey (preferably light grey) as it creates a nice contrast with the background which is white. As for the inset, the north-west part of the 1880-2006 diagram is empty, in contrast to the 1956-2005 diagram, so there is some space for an inset. In any case, please do whatever you feel most comfortable with. Kind regards, --BF 14:58, 8 May 2008 (UTC).
I uploaded the new image and used it in the article. --M samadi (talk) 22:02, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for the note. The image looks wonderful. Kind regards, --BF 22:40, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Can we talk about current issues on this page and other events linked o Iran?

Is it possible to discuss current events in Lebanon, Israel, Syria, Iraq and the Gulf in relation to Iran. I think US war preparations are very relevant and should be talked about on the page with a link to a whole new page.

This article for example could be used as a source and it explains the link between tensions in Lebanon with war preparations against Iran and Syria. [[1]] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.240.162.131 (talk) 00:01, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

It is by no doubt a prophoganda article. If what you have to write is nothing like : Iran naturally should be the world 1st scientific superpower, or that the history of iran is more glories than those of all other countries so it will be useless to try writing it here, it will soon be deleted.
You should also avoid writing about that iran executing and executed teens who were blamed for being too provocative-even when it had no factual basis. Don't remind the traffic problems this 1st world country have or that their supreme leader, kaminnai, declare at 1980 that he is willing to put iran on fire if it will strength the islam, and that their great present president doing is best to get into an apocalyptic nuclear war with Israel and that he is being supported by many Iranians. You should also avoid telling that about 150,000 academics are leaving this country each year or about anything else that have no good sources-i.e., those of official iran government .

[edit] Demographics & Homosexuality

Here's a thought: the country's president claims there are no homosexuals living in Iran. I think at some point this should appear under demographics as this is not common among other countries and it clearly identifies a unique situation in Iran. In contrast to a different statistic, literacy rate for example, I think this piece of information on Iran is deserving of attention. Not to mention the fact that homosexuality isn't even touched under the main articles of demography or Iranian people.

If an expert on this topic cannot be found, I believe the statement by the country's president should be used to substantiate this.

Reference: http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hATGOzv6YSmgeMY1zdYbdpyrG2cw

68.144.98.178 (talk) 14:18, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

This is an opportunity for me to mention a matter or two that to my opinion have not been touched upon in the media. Before doing so, it is appropriate to remind ourselves of what the President has said:
"No gays in Iran, says Ahmadinejad", YouTube.
Explicitly, he said: "We in Iran do not have gays like in your countries".
Firstly, I am not an Ahmadinejad apologist, but believe that integrity demands that I should say what our sound-bite media fail even to try to understand. The qualification of Mr Ahmadinejad, namely "like in your countries", is the key component of his response. To appreciate this, one has to realise the cultural differences and the social background of in particular Mr Ahmadinejad. (I grew up in Iran and consequently know the nuances that are relevant for this understanding.) The perceptions of almost all Iranians who have not had experience of living in Western countries are informed by two implicit assumptions: Firstly, that all homosexual men were paedophiles, or pederasts. Historically, one may argue that pederasty entered into Iranian culture following Alexander's victory over Iran; to understand the extent of pederasty in Iran, in particular during the Qajar era (those who are familiar merely with the poetry of Iraj Mirza must be well-aware of the extent of this phenomenan — somewhere he says, in the most elegant verse, Khodā-yā bach'che-bāzi khod che kār ast - Ke bar ān ālem-o āmi do-chār ast?, which very roughly translates as: O God what is pederasty for an occupation - In which both the learned and the common men are involved?), but also in other eras (Soltan Mahmood Ghaznavi had a boy lover named Ayāz) (read the poetry of Vahshi Bafghi whose mere residence in Qazvin has made that to say that someone is from Qazvin has become an euphemism for saying that that person is a pederast), one has to read the excellent book by Afsaneh Najmabadi, Women with Mustaches and Men without Beards: Gender and Sexual Anxieties of Iranian Modernity (University of California Press, 2005). ISBN 0-520-24263-7. Insofar as I am aware, pederasty remains rife in today's Afghanistan, another outpost of Alexander's army, and that is the major reason why the Taliban régime insisted on young men wearing beards and banned Western-style haircuts for men (ask any journalist who has spent some time in Afghanistan, and they will tell you the stories of some powerful men fighting with each other for gaining the favour of a young boy with whom they may have fallen in love). Secondly, Iranian society being a patriarchal society, it is unable to recognise that gay women can even exist. Now, given the above-mentioned two cultural assumptions, when Mr Ahmadinejd said that "We in Iran do not have gays like in your countries", in my opinion he was just expressing his cultural prejudices, that unlike in your countries, where homosexuals have a life of their own, in Iran they prey on children.
As for the execution of gays in Iran, I am only familiar with the case of Mahmoud Asghari and Ayaz Marhooni [2]. Before going into details, I must declare that I am principally against capital punishment, no matter what the crime may be that precipitates this punishment. Insofar as I know, these two men were not hanged for being homosexuals. The actual story behind the hanging of these two men was first published in the German magazine der Spiegel and I have my information from this story; surprisingly, der Spiegel never has attempted to refer to this story in their later reports (conform the line that Iran were an axis of evil), in spite of the fact that to my best knowledge they have never retracted the story (I read der Spiegel almost every day). Mahmoud Asghari and Ayaz Marhooni's crime had been to prey on a five-year old boy and practice sodomy on him for three years; they did that by blackmailing the boy over this entire period. After three years, one day this boy had decided to decline to submit to the perverted demands of these two grown-up men and told about this vile crime to his father who had immediately reported the case to the local police. Subsequent to this, the local court convicted these two men to death by hanging for raping a minor over a period of three years. (To say that these two men were hanged for homosexuality, is therefore tantamount to falling prey to the above-mentioned Iranian prejudice that equates homosexual men with paedophiles.) Since death sentences in Iran have to be approved by the authorities in the highest court in the capital city, the case was subsequently sent to Tehran. In principle, Tehran would commute the death penalties to life sentences had these young men not had previous criminal convictions. However, investigations in Tehran had revealed that these two men had once been arrested for offences related to smuggling drugs as well as theft. As a result, they did not show leniency and approved the death sentences handed out by the provincial court. Thus came to pass that these two young men were sadly hanged. According to der Spiegel, the entire village had been jubilant after these two young men had been hanged, for having been rid of two perverted men; the father of the victim had been offering people in the village sweets, exclaiming that it had been the best day of his life (this is called rough justice, as also practised in the USA where family members of victims are invited to witness executions and where after these executions the family members of victims express their jubilant mood for having witnessed the justice to have been done — please talk to Clive Stafford Smith [3], and he will confirm this account which I have from him through one of his television documentaries). As I mentioned above, all these details were published in der Spiegel — perhaps by searching the Internet, one can retrieve this report. The question arises as to whether Mahmoud Asghari and Ayaz Marhooni had been minors at the time of committing their crimes. According to Iranian law they were not (please read the Iranian Constitution, available on the website of Majles, the Iranian Parliament, (English), (Persian)). However, Iran being a signatory to the international conventions pertaining to human rights, one can make a very strong case that Iranian constitution is on this particular issue in conflict with Iran's international obligations. In other words, in principle Iran's case must be dealt with by the International Court of Justice, for some of her internal laws being in conflict with the corresponding international laws to which she is a signatory. So long as this has not been done, executions of Mahmoud Asghari and Ayaz Marhooni remain consistent within the Iranian judicial system, as these men had been raping a minor over an extended period (intent of abuse of a minor is hereby proven beyond any reasonable doubt), during which period they were considered as legally fully mature individuals, and therefore answerable to law's demands, according to the explicit definition of the notion of maturity by the Iranian Constitution.
Kind regards, --BF 13:48, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Iran & the Zionist media control

I would like to know if we can mention this problem on Iran's page since it affects the perception of Iran at all levels, internationally, as well the sources on which this information is based:

 :-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.59.46.144 (talk) 19:57, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia IS NOT a mean for the propagation of xenophoby, inter ethnical hatred, religious hatred or any other type of discrimination regarding sexual orientation, culture, language, skin color, etc. Please feel free to erase your previous post.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.208.174.72 (talk) 22:25, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't see any "hatred towards the Jews" in this video. It is a factual description of who owns what in the American media, confirmed by many sources. I think those are important facts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.116.242.209 (talk) 01:04, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Photos

Photo of the head of the state is not commonly used in such articles. See for example: France, Austria, Italy etc. I replaced the photo with Ebadi's one:

  • Ebadi is a notable Iranian.
  • We need a photo of an Iranian woman (not just men) in the article as well.
  • Iranian opposition groups need to be visible on the page and not just the rulers.

Please add your comments if you have any. Thanks. Sangak Talk 08:47, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Then let's have both pictures. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.116.242.209 (talk) 16:12, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

The head of state is the main guy...so...he should be on the iran page instead of another person with less power than him. She's just not powerful enough(not because she hasn't accomplished much, but, there isn't enough room in the article for anyone apart from the main guy)Ardeshire Babakan (talk) 21:03, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] A few points

There r a few points I want to discuss:

1. the title "Late modern era" (which i must admit was my idea) suggest that Iran's modern era is coming to a close. A more appropriate title may be recent history.
2. I have opposed the picture of the lynx in it's relevant section and i'll repeat why again:
  • It pushes the other pictures down where they shouldn't be
  • There are already a lot of images on the iran page
  • A picture of iranian wildlife is not needed
  • There r enough images in the geography section
  • I will be removing the sentence on wildlife(see next point)
3. The sentence or two on wildlife are of no real quality because
  • The first bit sounds like a poem!:b
  • It's just a list of animals
  • It isn't referenced
  • It looks odd, and a sentence or two shouldn't make a paragraph

so i will remove the sentence until someone writes a better sentence.

4. We should remove the shirin ebadi photo because of the reason explained in the relevant section of the talk page
5. i was thinking that 2 images relating o the achaemenid empire isn't right. after all there were 5 dynasties in this period of time. Or maybe im wrong on this one?

[edit] Pronunciation

In the standard Persian pronunciation, there is no [ʔ] at the beginning of the word (it can only occur after a consonant or between a vowel and a consonant). Alefbe (talk) 19:13, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Amazing photographs of Iran

Dear all, I suggest that someone contact Shahram Razavi and asks him to donate some of his amazing photographs of Iran to Wikipedia. Here are some relevant links:
— Amazing Iran, — Tehran - Maga Capital of Iran, — Reflections of a Vibrant Iran, — Contemporary Iranian Architecture, — Old Tehran & Iran photos, — Armours, Costumes, Uniforms, Flags, etc., — Imperial Iran of the Qajar Dynasty, etc.

Kind regards, --BF 21:06, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

It is a good suggestion, but till that time, can we add a link to one or more of those websites in "External Links" of the article?--M samadi (talk) 16:19, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
Dear M samadi, please do that by all means. As you can testify, some of the photographs in the above-mentioned links are simply breathtakingly beautiful. The only problem with these links is that they correspond to pages where people leave comments. Incidentally, you may also consider HORIZON's page and sets on flickr. This is one of his many impressive photographs: [4], taken from this page: [5]. Kind regards, --BF 20:08, 4 June 2008 (UTC)