User talk:INic

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[edit] Request

Thank you for your changes to Probability theory. And I have one request. Would you mind using the edit summary more often when you contribute. It is rather helpful, at least for me, when I stuble into some change on my watchlist, to get a contributor's view of what he changed. Thanks a lot, Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 01:56, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:John_Venn.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:John_Venn.jpg. However, the image may soon be deleted unless we can determine the copyright holder and copyright status. The Wikimedia Foundation is very careful about the images included in Wikipedia because of copyright law (see Wikipedia's Copyright policy).

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Please signify the copyright information on any other images you have uploaded or will upload. Remember that images without this important information can be deleted by an administrator. You can get help on image copyright tagging from Wikipedia talk:Image copyright tags. -- Carnildo 23:36, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] vandalism

At frequency probability, I added this:

Frequentists assign probabilities only to random events according to their relative frequencies of occurrence, or to subsets of populations as proportions of the whole. They refuse to assign probabilities to things that cannot be so interpreted. For example, if one were to attribute a probability of 1/2 to the proposition that there was life on Mars a billion years ago, one would violate frequentist canons, because one cannot say that there was life on Mars a billion years ago in 1/2 of all cases. Such degree-of-belief assignments of probability are used in Bayesian probability theory.

In an edit summary, you called this whole paragraph "vandalism". I think the material you called vandalism is factually correct, very much on-topic and well-positioned within the article, and in conformance with Wikipedia's NPOV policy. I've taught probability and statistics at the University of Minnesota, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, the University of North Carolina at Pembroke, and the University of Toledo. I also have far more experience editing Wikipedia articles on topics related to this and on other topics than you do. "Vandalism" is not defined as "material that User talk:INic doesn't like. You are using the word incredibly promiscuously and stupidly. Michael Hardy 21:19, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

What I considered vandalism is that the very definition of what a frequency probability is vanished after your edit. The concept of a random experiment is essential, as well as to define a sample space. A "random event" can't in general be assigned a frequency probability. This is a very crusial point I think. Don't you? Your edit totally destroyed the essence of what a frequency probability is. Please correct me if I'm wrong. In addition you talk about bayesianism in your contribution with an example about martians that is nowhere to be found in the references in the article. Isn't it good practice at wikipedia to only have material in the articles that readers can find references to in the article? iNic 21:35, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

INic, you've made it evident that any attempt to engage you in discussion is a waste of time. You've repeatedly shown you know nothing about Wikipedia and much less than you think about the topic under discussion, while insulting everyone else who edits the page. Until you change your attitude, you're wasting your time here JQ 11:12, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Two-envelopes paradox

The problem is not to find another way to calculate that doesn't lead to contradictions (that is easy), but to pinpoint the erroneous step in the presented reasoning leading to the contradiction. That includes to be able to say exactly why that step is not correct, and under what conditions it's not correct, so we can be absolutely sure we don't make this mistake in a more complicated situation where the fact that it's wrong isn't this obvious. So far none have managed to give an explanation that others haven't objected to. That some of the explanations are very mathematical in nature might indicate that at least some think that this is a subtle problem in need of a lot of mathematics to be fully understood. You are, of course, free to disagree!

Well said, and applicable to many articles on paradoxes. 192.75.48.150 17:39, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Thank you! iNic 22:41, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

 

[edit] What to do about St.Petersburg Paradox?

I saw your edits on that page and I would call them very reasonable indeed. However, Slam is still watching the page and won't let go, so corrections are frutile and just give him the opportunity for more insults. - In the meanwhile I see that this is his major reason to work on this article. (Compare the huge number of comments he wrote with the small number of actual changes he did on this article!) - What should we do? Give up and leave it like that? Maybe he's going for new targets then? Rieger 22:37, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Slam is a new and very unexperienced editor and we have to show some patience with him. But he has already made many editors upset, not only here, and even been blocked twice, so I'm a bit worried for him. He seem to have a very steep learning curve understanding what wikipedia is all about and how to behave here. If he continues like this he will probably be blocked indefinitely from wikipedia by the admins, I'm afraid. iNic 00:17, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
I didn't know this about the two blocks... Regarding the "learning curve", I hope you're right. I'm sometimes afraid he's more into making people upset rather than raising his voice. Well, we'll see! Rieger 07:33, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
That's called “projection”, Rieger. Hence you troll, as here and in your remarks about archiving. And if, for example, iNic really wanted that reference per se, he'd copy it himself. —SlamDiego 06:45, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Nope, I'm not a new editor; my first edit was on or before 15 October 2005 (when I creäted the article on chalkware). When was yours? —SlamDiego 06:45, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
The first block was reverted by the admin who'd imposed it, with an adminision that it had been inappropriate. (In fact, that admin's behavior during that period had other admins suggesting that he be desysoped.) And the person who brought the complaint resulting in the second block made a de facto admission that he'd misrepresent something as a violation of 3RR which wasn't. (I was away from Wikipedia during the 12 hours of the block, and they just don't undo expired blocks, legit or otherwise.) —SlamDiego 06:45, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
The operative rule here is that you don't get to kick the goose if you want its eggs. iNic never actually wanted the eggs, but he wanted to prove that he could, after all, kick them out of the goose. He has failed. I'll continue to ensure that the article remains correct, without exerting myself to expand it or write it to a lower level. Eventually agr (who, unlike either of you, proceeded in good faith in discussion, and got something out of it besides a few giggles) will expand the article. (It kind-of backfired for iNic to request that expansion from him.) —SlamDiego 06:45, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

See, iNic: that's exactly what I mean. :( Rieger 10:44, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Hardly. —SlamDiego 11:00, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Of course I see what you mean, Rieger. He's the perfect example of a person that as soon he's running out of good arguments he start to curse. And he curse a lot. Only time will tell if he eventually will understand what wikipedia is all about and how to behave here, or if he will be blocked away forever. iNic 16:52, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

I gave sound arguments, which is why agr said that he will expand the article. (If you'll recall, at the beginning he too didn't get the resolution.) If you can find an occasion of my cursing, then please present it.
There's not much need for me to further respond to your insults. The attempt here to spin some pseudo-history has failed. And your excuses to trash the seller-motivation argument have failed. I have no problem with you and Rieger forming a society for mutual support so long as you're no longer able to effectively attack the articles that concern me. —SlamDiego 00:13, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh, by the way: [[1]] No comments. Rieger 09:14, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, you have for certain done everything you can trying to reveal any human side in him! But all you get in return for that is rudeness and even more insults. Oh boy... I'm sorry Rieger, I guess I were wrong all along while you were correct. You know, when confronted with this massive amount of irrationality it sometimes takes a while (for me at least) to locate the source. The only good thing in all this is that all the accusations and name callings are so extremely silly that any explicit rebuttal is unnecessary. iNic 00:32, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Your vandalism of my user page.

This is your last warning. If you again vandalize a user page as you did mine, then you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. —SlamDiego 06:24, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

HAHA you are very funny. Think Slam. I made a comment about you because you had a comment about me on your page. That is not vandalism. If it were every comment on my user page by you about me would be vandalism too. Not to mention all your comments about me on talk pages to articles. Why don't you try to learn the rules and definitions of things here before you resort to personal attacks? Have you even tried to read the guidelines? They shouldn't be that hard to understand. Most of it is common sense actually. Because you know Slam, even if I and everybody else around you actually were trolls and vandals you are handling us in a completely wrong way. You always escalate the conflicts you are (constantly) drawn into and that is not the way to handle conflicts here (nor in the real world). You should instead do what I did when you vandalized my page for the first time. I silently removed your vandalism without a word. Then you reverted my kind and forgiving removal and vandalized even more, adding some of your own rules. At that stage I let an admin take care of you and I became silent for quite a while thus avoiding a totally pointless conflict with a newbie. I didn't respond to any of your numerous personal attacks or accusations against me. THAT is the correct way to handle a vandal, especially a newbie vandal. But as you've been an editor a while now other editors might one day get tired of treating you as a newbie. Please consider that and spend some quality time reading the guidelines. Welcome to Wikipedia! iNic 16:18, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
My user page linked to a comment that you actually made, which comment was about me. It isn't your prerogative to add further insults to my user page . In fact, for the most part, your comments about my user page should be confined to my talk page.
If you think that linking to a personal attack by you constitutes a violation of WP:NPA on my part, then perhaps you should bring that matter to the attention of an administrator. However, he or she is as likely to be irritated with you as to be amused by your complaint.
Nor am I the one escalating here. Your claim that I am inhuman is by far the harshest claim made to-date, and came after the fight over St. Petersburg paradox had ended.
My original warning about your edit to St. Petersburg paradox was not vandalism, nor did the admin to whom you complained offer agreement that my warning was vandalism. He just mistakenly believed that the edits about which I warned you were being made in good faith, and therefore disagreed with my assessment.
Since you keep wanting to claim that I am or am acting like a newbie, allow me to draw your attention to a newbie mistake that you have recently made: When you were (absurdly) trying to get JzG to apply a long-term block to my account, you referred to blocking as “punishment”. You just haven't understood its approved function at all, which should suggest to you that you may not be understanding various other rules. —SlamDiego 04:17, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
Oh, Slam, you're getting boring now... 84.72.29.27 09:34, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Probability theory

You deleted a paragraph at Probability theory with edit summary deleted confusing paragraph.[2] Could you explain what you find confusing about this paragraph, so that it can be made less confusing, rather than just deleting this quite essential information?  --Lambiam 23:23, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

What a probability is is the subject matter of probability interpretations, not probability theory. However, we do need to update the See also-links in the article so that readers interested in that are directed to the relevant articles. iNic 09:39, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
The deleted paragraph does not discuss, or attempt to discuss, what a probability is, but how a probability is represented in probability theory. This passage used to be in the Probability article but was removed from there with the edit summary belong in theory.[3] What do you think, should we have a third article for information that belongs neither in Probability nor in Probability theory but is somewhere between the two?  --Lambiam 19:51, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
The issue of what events are impossible or not is still a matter of philosophical dispute. In any case this belongs to the interpretation or application of probability, not probability theory proper. iNic 11:10, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi, iNic. I ran across this interesting discussion quite by accident. The point Lambiam is trying to make is not philosophical, but mathematical. I'll try to clarify it.
Modern probability theory is based on the concept of measure. Certain events that could in theory happen can have probability zero, if the set of points constituting those events have measure zero. Perhaps you're alluding to the idea that an event which might happen, but for which the expected waiting time is infinite, is "impossible" in a philosophical sense?
Traditional terminology does say that probability zero is equivalent to "impossibility", but a careful interpretation of the underlying theory indicates that this language is imprecise. Can you suggest alternative wording? Thanks! dcb —Preceding unsigned comment added by DavidCBryant (talk • contribs) 13:16, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi David! I know the way mathematicians use talk about these matters. But what makes sense to a mathematician isn't always what makes sense to the lay person. In this case the usual jargon of a mathematician regarding measure theoretic probability is presented out of context and before measure theoretic probability is even introduced in the article. And when it comes to what is impossible or not it suffices to talk to a physicist to get a different opinion. iNic 20:54, 10 September 2007 (UTC)