Template talk:Infobox PNG Place

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[edit] New PNG Place infobox

Port Moresby Pot Mosbi  National Capital District, Papua New Guinea
Location of Port Moresby in Papua New Guinea
Population: (as of 2000)	254,158[1] (1st)
Main languages:	Tok Pisin, English, Motu
Language area:	Motu
Established:	1873
Elevation:	30 m (98 ft)
Coordinates:	9°28′10″S 147°10′15″E / -9.46944, 147.17083Coordinates: 9°28′10″S 147°10′15″E / -9.46944, 147.17083
Mean Max Temp Mean Min Temp Rainfall 35 °C 95 °F 25 °C 77 °F 1200 mm 47.2 in
Downtown Port Moresby

discussion copied from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Melanesia#New PNG Place infobox

OK I have been meaning to create it for a while and suddenly got prompted after Aliasd created another one already (sorry mate to take it and run), but there is now a new PNG place infobox based on the Template:Infobox Australian Place model. You can find it here Template:Infobox PNG Place and all the instructions on fields to use in it. There may be a few bugs to iron out in it, in particular the suburb type (not that there are many suburbs in PNG). Any let me know what people think. An example is included here (with some made up numbers at the bottom). Nomadtales 04:55, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Postcode? I don't believe there are postcodes in PNG... And I don't think District should be there either. There are LLG wards etc but that's probably too fine a level of detail. Also, I'm dubious about Established... that applies only to a few of the largest towns. Most populated places in PNG are villages that have no known establishment date. I'll remove those three now - feel free to reintroduce if there's a good reason for them. Otherwise, nice work. Wantok 05:29, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Apologies, just took a closer look and saw those fields are all optional - no worries. Removing Postcode and District from the example POM box. Wantok 05:32, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

PNG actually does have Postcodes. Lae is (from memory) 411. They are all listed in the phonebook which I don't have access to anymore. Of course they are not really used. And as to the district that will probably be more meaningful when using the village type. Nomadtales 06:02, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Interesting - I'd never heard of PNG postcodes - here's a list. I've never seen one actually used, as you say, and I'd recommend against their inclusion on pages. Nice work on the infobox. Wantok 06:59, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

yeah the postcodes are a bit meaningless, if no one uses it. But it can just stay blank in the template. Nomadtales 00:54, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Mabye if we used the postcodes more, the mail would get through! Aliasd 17:15, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I have updated the template with the Coordinates field. Now the only thing I am not sure about is for District or Local Area of Government. Are they interchangable? Also on a technical note, the template currently inserts a blank line above the text uderneath it, anyone work out why this is happening? It is puzzling me no end. Nomadtales 00:54, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm, District has wide administrative usage; LLG is newer and a subordinate level (typically a few wards). Another option would be Electorate (the "Open" electorates - the same as Districts, at least in some parts of the country). A suggestion: add a wikitext field for "Local Language/s"? Perhaps we should move this discussion to the infobox talk page... Wantok 02:14, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I support LLGs, Languages are going to get a bit iffy when we go to Tokplas, it would be fine for small places, but are we going to list 5000 languages for a city?

[edit] We need a Map!

Suggestion: | align="center" colspan="2"| <div style="width: 250px; border: none;"> {{Superimpose | base = {{{image_map|Papua new guinea provinces with capitals.png}}} | base_width = 250px | base_caption = {{{name}}} location | float = Dot-yellow.gif | float_width = 8px | float_caption = Location of {{{name}}} in [[{{{province}}}]] | x = {{{dot_x|<noinclude>0</noinclude>}}} | y = {{{dot_y|<noinclude>0</noinclude>}}} }} </div> <center>Location of {{{name}}} in {{{province}}}</center> Aliasd 06:12, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

• Huh, hadn't come across this before. I think I get the idea from the code. Nice idea! Wantok 06:37, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Nice one. see how you go adding it. (also see if you can fix that extra blank line it currently adds in at the top of the paragraph. Nomadtales 06:44, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Bleh! is there a way to repeat the province name magic it does without repeating the code? Aliasd 06:52, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I Have implemented the map, and a couple of nice features in sandbox, I think its time to snapshot it Aliasd 11:26, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

BTW, do you like meh pretty colours, DO YOU??????!?!?! Aliasd 17:17, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Since there exists a image Dot-yellow.svg in svg format that is better than the gif format used in Dot-yellow.gif), I would suggest to use that image -- AnyFile 16:17, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Language/s

• Re Language/s: it would be an optional field, of course, typically listing one, sometimes two languages. Not Tok Pisin or English, only the local indigenous language. For larger towns, we could either just not include the field, or show only the local (original) language of the place. Wantok 06:31, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Local languages is probably a bad name?Aliasd 06:33, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
    • Perhaps a better way of expressing it is "Language area" - that way it should be clearer that it represents the traditional language of the place, rather than things like English or Tok Pisin. Wantok 06:35, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
      • ...So, for instance, I would think Tabubil should have Faiwolmin as the "language area" rather than Tok Pisin :) ... trying to show the local indigenous/traditional language here. Wantok 13:36, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
        • (: changed Aliasd 17:01, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
        • Why not change the section to 'most prevalent languages'? Aliasd 17:02, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
          • Because the traditional language is more interesting and useful information (I think). Every town of any size is going to have prevalent language being Tok Pisin. I think we should stick to listing the original, traditional language/s - this is an important aspect to places in PNG, identifying the traditional local people/s as well as the original language/s. So, for Tabubil, I would think it should list Faiwolmin but not English or Tok Pisin. Think of those language maps that show which traditional languages are/were spoken in which areas - that's the information I think "Language area" should show. Wantok 02:49, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
            • We must remember, these articles are for people who don't KNOW ANYTHING about the town country etc, we can't assume the reader knows the obvious! We need to print it. Besides, isn't Motu more prevailant in Port Moresby than Tok Pisin? exception to your rule. Anyway, we should put English and Tok Pisin on the fact box for the same reason we put "Papua New Guinea" on there. Aliasd 06:57, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
              • Agreed, a "Spoken languages" field would be good to have too. Didn't quite get your comment re Motu - I wasn't suggesting that the most prevalent language not be listed, just that the original language should be listed - the local language spoken by traditional landholders. (It's beside the point, but nowadays Tok Pisin is much more widely spoken in POM than Motu.) Wantok 00:32, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
                • OK, I've now added a Main Languages field (using lang value) in addition to the existing Language Area field (now using langarea value). Main Languages is for the contemporary most commonly used language/s in the place; Language Area shows the traditional language of the local people in the place. Wantok 01:12, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
          • Hmm, after consulting the relevant SIL language map, it looks like the traditional language around Tabubil town itself is Ninggerum (not Faiwolmin). Wantok 04:43, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Language would be a good field for the village type, where there would almost certainly be only one language in use. I will add it later, unless someone else wants to now (I'm going out for a while). Nomadtales 06:43, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sandbox

I created a sandbox for this template. it is available here. I linked this page to the sandbox, and we can develop here, and start integrating the current template into articles Aliasd 06:39, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Looking good

This?

or this?

mabye this?

Well done Aliasd for the hard work on the template. You have certainly taken the ball and run with it. A couple of suggestions though, what if we stuck the map at the bottom of the template and used the other one without all the colours. It is a bit distracting at the momment looking like a rainbow. What do you reckon? Nomadtales 22:23, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I just updated the sand box with these ideas. Personally I think the map and image seperated look better. Nomadtales 22:35, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

The map with colours has been specificaly designed for this infobox! it has special features like transparent background. As far as the map and image seperated is concerned, good idea, but I think image at the bottom and map at the top, is in accordance with the way other infoboxes are laid out, but bring back the old map! Aliasd 06:52, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

I think we will have to have a vote on that one. The coloured up one is a pretty psychedelic. I like one that doesn't immediately draw your eye to it. Swapping the image and map around doesn't bother me, this does seem to be the standard. Nomadtales 07:10, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

I will see about toning it down a bit. its only, what, 5 colours? :) Aliasd 07:15, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

I still like the original I must admit. Nomadtales 23:06, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Me too - I prefer the single-colour one with the coastlines clearer (the first one). You can still see the borders between provinces, and it's much easier to see where the yellow dot is. Wantok 00:56, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, thats the vote, At least once I make a decent one, thanks to the yellow dot innovation we aren't stuck with the pink! I never liked the pics on the Australian city infobox, bland... So I will see if I can get some decent graphic design involved into this. See if we can make something nice! Aliasd 13:08, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

I have made a couple of other tweaks to the Sand Box edition. I have moved othername below the name. I have fixed it so that the popdate is optional - sometimes this may not be known. And I have permanently set it so that the elevation is a numeral in metres, it will auto-convert to display feet as well. The thing really bugging me at the moment is why it is still inserting that blank space above the first paragraph. Nomadtales 03:12, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Yea, sorry about the bad positioning of stuff like othername. Aliasd 07:00, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Alrighty. I worked out that extra line problem. So I have now updated the live Template with the Sand Box version. I think it is pretty much ready to roll out. Nomadtales 06:06, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

You have been really going on about that for a couple days, you been sleeping ok? Aliasd 07:00, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

It was pissing me off. Glad to get it out of the road. Nomadtales 07:10, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Testing town

Tabubil  Western Province, Papua New Guinea
Location of Tabubil in Papua New Guinea
Population: (as of 2000)	12,500 (12th)
LLG:	Star Mountains
Main languages:	English, Tok Pisin, Ninggerum
Established:	1972
Elevation:	457 m (1,499 ft)
Coordinates:	5°16′30″S, 141°13′35″E
Mean Max Temp Mean Min Temp Rainfall 29 °C 84 °F 20 °C 68 °F 8000 mm 315 in
Tabubil aerial photograph, looking south over the town. The Kiunga-Tabubil Highway can be seen on the left, and the Ok Tedi River and escarpment is on the right.

I have added another type into the template - Town. There needs to be something between a city and a village, unless we merge the categories Category:Cities in Papua New Guinea and Category:Towns in Papua New Guinea to a new one Category:Cities and Towns in Papua New Guinea. Nomadtales 06:51, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

I like it! the colour is much nicer anyhow :) Aliasd 18:40, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New Map

I designed this one to fit our current template. Admit it, its better than pink! Aliasd 06:41, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Alright it's better. But can you still incorporate the provincial borders and capital locations? Nomadtales 07:01, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

ok, give me a little while! Aliasd 09:33, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

What do you think? Aliasd 12:36, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Nice one. Just as a varient, can you do one with whie or black for the lines and dots. Nomadtales 10:15, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Black will not show up, but white is a possibility. Aliasd 14:07, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Ok, done. I have edited the image to have more obvious boundaries, made them look ok at most resolutions, and adjusted the image further to fit our current positioning of places. I think this is the one. Aliasd 08:24, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Alrighty, I will go with that. Nice one. Nomadtales 21:38, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Wantok suggestion - increase contrast between land and sea, and reduce contrast between land and province borders...

Nice work indeed, Aliasd. Here's a suggested improvement... increasing the contrast between land and sea (I think the land might be a bit difficult to distinguish from sea in the current sandbox one, particularly for those with less than perfect eyesight) and also reducing the brightness of the province borders. I don't think this particular image is of final quality - just a rough idea of the changes I'd suggest. Wantok 04:03, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

I have further modified the image, to show a contrast between land and sea, and crop some pixels off the top to make our current yellow dot placements show up more correctly with this image (i have already modified the port moresby dot on this page, so it wont show correctly) , but I disagree that the provincial boundaries should be less bright, as this image will be shown on such a small scale that it would be hard to distinguish the borders. That being said, i like your image, wantok, i would be happy to see either mine (current or revert) or yours in the infobox instead of the current image, also, i think your image can be adapted to show the provinces when we finally set up that infobox, as it will be a great replacement for the current images. I have to go away a little while, i dont know when i will be next available to pay some attention to wikipedia, so go ahead with any changes without my say from now on, please, thanks guys. Aliasd 07:32, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

I have come back from walkabout and there has been no consensus reached here, so if no further discussion is posted within the next 12 hours or so, I will WP:BB. (in the nicest possible way of course) Aliasd 19:39, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Go for it. I like the map. Just change it. While you are at it could you check why the Suburb type is not showing the city in the same line as the province i.e. for Konedobu it should say Port Moresby, NCD. Also another thought, do we really need the map to be displayed for the suburb type? Nomadtales 22:35, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

It would be good to use an image of the actual city for that, totally possible Aliasd 22:47, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, nice work. Did you actually make the province borders brighter? They seem almost the same. Or did you want me to make them brighter? I think it's usable as is (in the sandbox) but I'm happy for the borders to be somewhat brighter if you think it's needed - but perhaps not quite as intense a white as the earliest (satellite image based version) where the borders dominated the image. Wantok 02:09, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Thats your image in ther! I used it to compare :) Aliasd 12:56, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

I have upgraded the image on the infobox, the image can be altered at any time, as long as it stays to scale, i have also edited the infobox to display provincial flags wherever possible. Aliasd 19:17, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Establishment dates

Now that the Category:Settlements by year of establishment category structure has (mainly) be created, would it be possible to recode this template to put PNG places into the appropriate settlements established in year x category? I know that there are a few 20th century categories that still need to be created and I would be happy to to this once they have some articles. Greenshed 19:32, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Totally! just remember, if anyone takes this upon themselves, this template has a sandbox that displays on this talk page, so functionality can be tested before going 'live' Aliasd 20:54, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Fixed. Nomadtales 22:54, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dot-yellow.gif -> Dot-yellow.svg

Since an image Dot-yellow.svg is available and the use of the svg version is better for many reasons compared to the use of the gif version, can in the template Image:Dot-yellow.gif be substituted with Dot-yellow.svg ? I have preferred to ask here instead of making the change directly myself to avoid any complaints for doing it without giving notice first. Thanks -- AnyFile 16:22, 22 September 2007 (UTC)