User talk:Iceager

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Leave questions and comments here. I will probably reply in your talk page, if you have one. If you see one-sided conversations below and are curious, go to the relevant talk pages to see the rest of the conversations. Cheers, --Iceager 19:19, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Dear Jongseong, thanks for your message. I have a website Adam Carr's election archive where I try to post detailed results of all national elections. I am keen to get detailed results of the Korean National Assembly elections, but I cannot find any figures at the Election Commission website. All I have at present is a national summary. I have emailed Mr Moon who helped me with earlier elections, but he has not answered: maybe he doesn't work there anymore. The Chosun Ilbo website has a lot of statistics but since I don't know any Korean I can't navigate the site. What I would like to get is a set of results by party, at the national, provincial and constituency level. Ideally I would like the names of all the constituencies, the names of all the members elected and the names of all the other candidates as well, but I don't suppose I can ask someone to do that much translation work for me. Let me know if you can help in any way. Adam 04:15, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for your message. Yes I located the constituency results at the Choson Ilbo website, and figured out which symbols represented which party. I was then able to add up all the candidate votes by party to get province-level figures. That only leaves constituency-level figures. If you really feel like translating all the constituency names and candidate names that would be wonderful, but it is a lot of work. An alternative might be if you could direct me to a website which gives translations of Korean name-elements, so that I could translate the names myself. It shouldn't be too hard since as we know all Koreans are called Kim, Park or Lee :) Adam 00:03, 3 May 2004 (UTC)

Later: I have now read the extremely interesting article at Hangul, and found the linked List of Hangul syllables. It is a very ingenious writing system once you see the logic of it. Now with a bit of practice I can transliterate Korean names myself! 김, 박, 이 ! Adam 03:28, 3 May 2004 (UTC)

Dear Brian / Jongseong, I have now installed the Seoul constituency figures you so kindly translated for me at my website, with appropriate acknowledgement. Do you feel able to proceed with the other provinces? If so, you only need to translate the constituency names and give the candidate names in the same order they are listed in Choson Ilbo, and I will be able to work out the rest. If not, that's a pity, but I can probably figure them out for myself with the list at List of Hangul syllables, although of course it will take me much longer.

I notice that you hyphenate some of the given names, for example Gim Dong-il and Jeong Un-guk. Is there a "hyphenate before a vowel" rule, and a "hyphenate n followed by g rule"? Adam 08:03, 16 May 2004 (UTC)

Thank you, Ice :)

So, what is the MR for Kim Il Sung and Chun Doo-hwan? WhisperToMe 14:48, 16 May 2004 (UTC)

I thought you were the world's leading authority on Korean transliteration, Whisper (just as you are on the history of the Middle East and every other subject as well). Adam 15:20, 16 May 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Revisionist History of Korea

Iceager - I've made major edits to History of Korea to get rid of revisionist/apologist propoganda from an anonymous contributor. Hope you get a chance to review and correct even further. I tried to accommodate a "bit" of what the person added, but it wasn't easy. -- Fuzheado 01:06, 19 May 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for your latest changes in the history bit of the Korea article. I think they are quite good and certainly you get the balance right (all periods mentioned, it's dense, but that's what we need in a general article). Thanks again. Kokiri 08:56, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] 쉬리

Yes, Kokiri and I have been having a discussion on his talk page about these subtleties.... I am getting better at pronouncing a Korean-style 쉬 and final ㄹ (like ...말), which of course sounds nothing at all like an English-style "l".... Initial ㄱ, ㄷ, ㅂ, ㅈ are neither exactly g/d/b/j nor k/t/p/ch but somewhere in between.... 시 is neither exactly "see" nor "she" but somewhere in between.... And I still have a lot of trouble pronouncing ㄲ, ㄸ, ㅃ, and ㅉ correctly.... 정말로 어렵군요! -Sewing (山道子) - talk 14:09, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Anyhow, do you think that overseas Koreans pronounce the language differently from the way it's spoken in different parts of Korea? I am often in a heavily Korean neighbourhood, and everyone's speaking with something close to 표준 발음, but I don't often hear someone even speaking in full-out Seoul dialect, let alone any of the other dialects.... Or maybe it's because a high proportion of overseas Koreans probably have a university education, versus a higher proportion of everyday working-class people in Korea? -Sewing (山道子) - talk 14:26, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Hi, Iceager: Yes, your explanation does help. Korean immigrants from different parts of Korea need to interact, and therefore use 표준말, or something close to it. As the standard language's being taught in schools, yes, I know many people who can switch effortlessly between 국어 and 경상 사투리. Of course, this is a phenomenon in other languages as well, wherever there is a strong distinction between the standard and regional dialects. I used to know someone of Chinese ancestry who grew up in Jamaica; here in Vancouver, he would speak with a Canadian accent, but in conversation with his family, he would speak with a Jamaican accent.

I believe in the UK too, a social climber may acquire "Received Pronunciation" (the accent we think of as being "standard British," which is only spoken by 3% of the population) or perhaps the London accent (which is totally different from RP, and which one increasingly hears on TV these days); but when said social climber interacts with old friends or family members, (s)he will use his/her original dialect. In Australia, actors and announcers used to aspire to acquiring the British "received pronunciation," in contradistinction to the variety of Australian accents.

I was interested to read that you have met 고려인. 함경말 is to me the most intriguing and exotic of all the dialects, because I know so little about it and, of course, because it's not exactly easy to interact with speakers of it! -山道子 (Sewing) - talk 14:11, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)


== Please proceed to the Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Korean). It will be ready in half-an hour. Anyway, are you yourself a Korean after all? User:Chan Han Xiang - 12:53, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)

That's good, all the better to debate this with a Korean. I'm a Chinese in Singapore. By the way, since time in memorial, you Koreans have come under strong Chinese cultural and religious influence, even going up to extent of adopting the structure of Chinese family names. For example: 박정남 (朴貞南), like the Chinese, is pronounced as Park Jung Nam, instead of Park Jungnam, otherwise the Jungnam will look like one word and non-Koreans or Chinese may mistook it as some sort of funny name. Furthermore, in most websites in the Internet, people will write Park Jung Nam and not Park Jungnam or Park Jung-nam, although Park Jung-Nam is accepted for the Romanization systems. Go and try this on any search engines, be it yahoo or gogle, and you see whether I am right or wrong.

PS. This Park Nam June only applies to Korean people. However, mentioning a dynasty, city or province, internet users will more commonly use Joseon instead of Jo Seon.

User:Chan Han Xiang - 17:40, 29 Dec 2004, (UTC)


Iceager, I do get exactly what you mean. Legendary personalities like Hwan-in are one of them. But what I'm saying is the names, you know? Look into your country, be it North or South Korea. I think you are from the South. Just look onto your children or classmates, do they ever use the Romanization systems instead of using Hangul and Hanja for application forms, worksheets in English classes, etc? In Singapore and Malaysia, be it during cirriculum time or applying application forms, they would use say, take my alias, Chan Han Xiang, and not Chan Han-xiang or Chan Hanxiang. Just look at Lee Kuan Yew. He uses Lee Kuan Yew and not Lee Kuanyew. And furthermore, Korean Hangul and Hanja are not at all not only syllabic units, but both words and syllabic units. Just look at the Chinese 字, why are Hangul and Hanja used in everyday writing, unlike Romanization systems? Syllabic units are only meant for pronouncation.

Do not think I don't know Korean at all just because I'm Chinese. Watching Korean dramas like Gyeoul Yeonga, Yeorum Hyanggi, and many of Bae Yong Joon's dramas made me have a very strong picture about the Korean language, so strong that I have enough vocabulary to mix around with Koreans like you, and I also can read a little Hangul in addition to my native Chinese dialects and English. Now, come back to the point: You say "Park Jung Nam" will automatically get more results because Google will search the three "words" separately. No, do you get what I mean? Searching results Park Jung Nam doesn't all get Park Jung Nam but you get mainly Park Jung Nam with some Park Jung-nam and other variations.

Get what I mean: I want to let you know that most webpages prefer to use Park Jung Nam rather than Park Jung Nam. Yes this is the proff using the search engine. However, if you search for Park Jung-nam or other variations, how many websites using the Westernized variations can you get?

I give you some tips:

  • Search for name structures using Park Jung Nam, Park Jung-nam or other westernized variations. Count the number of which type of Romanization is the most popular not in term of search results, but in terms of webpages. However, this is very, very difficult as you die counting.
  • I give you another way. Search Park Jung Nam with the two hypens : usibg Park Jung Nam and other variations.

PS: Park Jung Nam is just an make-up name. You may use other popular personalities for the mark-up search.

Ah yes, you say I don't understand exactly what you mean by this. A Korean would pronounce 박정남 without pause between the syllables, and it is a somewhat pointless exercise to try to figure out where the word breaks are in speech. And um, Jungnam is one word. It's a single, indivisible name, unless we decide to take apart the Chinese characters and examine them separately (which Koreans never automatically do). So what exactly makes "Jungnam" a funnier name than "Jung Nam"?

You said that the Korean Hangul never take apart the Korean charcaters to examine seperately. Then why for 朴貞南 would you all Koreans write 박정남 instead of clumming up the 정남 into one character so that Jung Nam would become Jungnam? Are you trying to say that?

I would strongly urge you to search for Kim Hyun Ju and Kim Hyunju in successions, for an alternative. I hope you get what I mean.


What I mean is that you search for "Park Jung Nam", "Park Jung-nam" and "Park Jung-Nam in succession. However, searching Park Jung Nam doesn't means that all have to be Park Jung Nam. I know that. However, I am just trying to show you that the majorty of the internet users use Park Jung Nam rather than the latter two.

Actually, I conclude that all three can be considered correct. As the name structure of the Koreans is the same as the chinese; surnames first, followed by the names. Names ccan be either of all the above three, as I compared to the fact that Mao Zedong use Maozedong instead of Mao Ze Dong, and Lee Kuan Yew instead of Lee Kuanyew. I think we should respect the original decision, and if you want me to change all the politician sections back, please inform me.

Thanks. User:Chan Han Xiang. 20 Dec 2004, 16:42 (UTC)

What I mean is that you search for "Park Jung Nam", "Park Jung-nam" and "Park Jung-Nam in succession. However, searching Park Jung Nam doesn't means that all have to be Park Jung Nam. I know that. However, I am just trying to show you that the majorty of the internet users use Park Jung Nam rather than the latter two.

Actually, I conclude that all three can be considered correct. As the name structure of the Koreans is the same as the chinese; surnames first, followed by the names. Names ccan be either of all the above three, as I compared to the fact that Mao Zedong use Maozedong instead of Mao Ze Dong, and Lee Kuan Yew instead of Lee Kuanyew. I think we should respect the original decision, and if you want me to change all the politician sections back, please inform me.

Thanks. User:Chan Han Xiang 21:19 29 Dec 2004, (UTC)


User:Chan Han Xiang 21:19 29 Dec 2004, (UTC)

[edit] Notice board

Hello Iceager! I'm posting here to let you know that there is a new notice board for Korea-related topics. This board is a central place to discuss all matters pertaining to Wikipedia's coverage of Coreana. I hope you'll drop by and help it to take shape. -- Visviva 15:08, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Image for Korean name

Sorry, although I did contribute that image, I am not an admin so I am unable to protect it. I suggest that you contact the person that protected the image, which appears to be User:Rje. Lupin 17:52, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Tamil language

Hi Iceager. Just wanted to let you know that I've replied to your comments at Talk:Tamil language. -- Sundar (talk · contribs) 07:22, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)

That's alright. Cheers. -- Sundar 08:28, Jun 25, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Jan Guillou

np. His surname is French, that's why the spelling is so weird.

[edit] Usercategorization

You were listed on the Wikipedia:Wikipedians/Korea page as living in or being associated with Korea. As part of the Wikipedia:User categorisation project, these lists are being replaced with user categories. If you would like to add yourself to the category that is replacing the page, please visit Category:Wikipedians in Korea for instructions. Rmky87 15:50, 17 September 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Need help for my multilanguage project www.cucumis.org

Hi, I need help for my translation help project. It's a community of translators that help each others. The translations value is evaluated trough a system of points that allows to avoid abuse of the system. The user interface has been translated in many languages with this system, but it's very hard for korean, chinese, vietnamese, Hindi and north of europe languages. It's a young project and I hope you will like it! Thanks for your help! JP

[edit] Maarja-Liis Ilus

Hey. You just added umlauts to a song title on this article.. Are you sure that is correct? The sources I used to write the article suggested that there aren't any. I could be wrong. Esteffect 01:06, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

  • Ah, ok, thanks. I guess the sources I used had just ignored the 'umlauts', like I guess a lot of English speakers do. Esteffect 01:22, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
    • No problem.. But, if she's one of your favourite artists, maybe you might be able to help me with this - On a fansite I gone to she had four albums listed, but the site's links were all broken so I couldn't find out anything about the 'fourth album'. It seemed to be listed between the 1998 and 2001 albums - Do you know anything about it? I couldn't find any extra info on it - Most of the sources about her seem to not of been updated for a few years. Esteffect 01:34, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] English words of Chinese origin

I notice you have added some information at this page. Do you know of any Chinese words that have entered English via Korean? (Excluding, of course, the kinds of Korean neologism that you refer to). Bathrobe 09:55, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Estonian stops

The final sounds in the Estonian words tont and tund are definitely different. It is not just length. In tund n is quite long, much longer than d. Actually, d is very short and quite weak (and unvoiced). In tont, n is about that short as d as in tund, and t is intense and long but not that long as n is tund. Besides, in both of these words n is palatalized. This palatalization definitely extends to t in tont but it doesn't extend to d in tund, at least not in my idiolect. (There are idiolects where tont is without palatalization as well; there is a dialectal variety in the extent of palatalization (due to i in oblique cases of singular)). Andres 16:41, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ko:사용자:Wikipedia is Juche

Permaps try asking the devs in #wikimedia-tech, one of the Wikipedia:IRC channels. Thue | talk 22:56, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for notifying us about the Korean Wikipedia vandalism. A group of vandal-fighters from here were able to remove all of the vandalism quickly. Feel free to contact me at any time if you need help again. Naconkantari e|t||c|m 01:59, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Icelandic g

Greetings. We have not met before, but as it happens I am in a position now to undertake a bit of research. I made the blunder of my life on the Icelandic talk page (due to one beer too many), but if you wish I can gather all the rules of pronunciation of g in Icelandic and deposit them here. What you do with the information is up to you. But, just out of curiosity, why would one want to have a set of rules from Icelandic to Korean and for a specific letter at that? Cheerio Io 21:53, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Giric

Long ago you asked at Giric of Scotland if anyone knew how to pronounce Giric. I think the answer is no. Indeed, there is considerable uncertainty on how to write it. The variants in older sources include Girich, Giric and Gric/Grig, probably in that sequence. Girich may, possibly, be contemporary as it appears in a Litany of prayers, including one for "king Girich" and his army. I don't have the actual source material, I got the second hand. Not much help I know, but it's the best I can do. Angus McLellan (Talk) 22:48, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikimania '06

Hello Iceager, if you're checking your page these days : come to Wikimania 2006 this summer. We need more contributors to the discussion who are familiar with Korean; and it will be a great deal of fun. Best, +sj + 13:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] English-to-Korean translation

Hey. :) I saw your name listed on Wikipedia:Translators available for Korean. I need help translating a note to editors for the Kim Yu-Na article. Anon users who WHOIS say are from Korea are disregarding a note to editors and I thought it would help if I got a Korean translation. Could you translate Note to editors: Please do not change this without citing a source! into Korean? Thanks! Kolindigo (talk) 22:24, 27 February 2008 (UTC)