Talk:Holla Back NYC

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This activist movement has not considered the long-term consequences of its so-called "intervention," and its followers remain blind to the fact that if basic social etiquette against taking pictures of strangers is challenged, street harassers themselves will begin taking pictures of random women. You and I can make the world a better place, but it starts by thinking before acting, and not letting the entire normal process of coming to terms with one's own sexuality become the engine for a socially destructive form of activism. -Naif 12:02, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Are you suggesting that basic social etiquette is against taking pictures of random strangers, but not against approaching women in public places with unwelcome, intrusive or obscene comments? As I understand it, basic social etiquette rests on the principle that everyone is entitled to respect. "Everyone" including women. The harassers are only pictured because they have initiated contact with a woman and treated her disrespectfully. The harassed women, on the other hand, did not invite harassment. Oh, except for having the audacity to go out in public without a man.

Victims of harassment are not at all blind to the possible consequences of confronting a harasser. In fact one of the hallmarks of street harassment is that responding negatively can, and often does invite more aggressive abuse and in some cases physical violence. This is one of the reasons why street harassment can be so upsetting for a victim: it reminds them of their vulnerability.

Besides, creeps are already taking pictures of random women, and have been doing so for a long, long time. The basic social etiquette you champion has been challenged before, but I haven't seen any comments over at [Talk:Upskirt] denouncing that.

You and I can indeed make the world a better place,Naif, but I'd venture to say that it starts by really thinking before even speaking, never mind acting. In the spirit of reasoned discussion with the aim of a better understanding on all our parts, then, I'd be interested to know what exactly you mean with your above comments about "the entire normal process of coming to terms with one's own sexuality." Perhaps you can clarify exactly what point you're making there. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.70.215.44 (talk • contribs) 12:28, 14 December 2005.