Talk:History of the Jews in Wales

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[edit] Medieval Wales

This is a welcome addition, however I am sceptical about the material on medieval Wales. The article begins with the bold statement:

"The History of the Jews in Wales includes evidence of Jewish communities in Wales dating from the Middle Ages."

Where exactly is that evidence? Giraldus Cambrensis mentions a Christian monk becoming an "apostate" to Judaism, however even if that is reliable I just can not see how it can be stated that there is "evidence of Jewish communities in Wales dating from the Middle Ages". As far as I know there is none. You can not take a gossipy anecdote about one individual (probably Norman, not Welsh) by Giraldus as the basis for the existence of Jewish communities in Wales in the Middle Ages. I know of no evidence prior to the Modern Period. It is also misleading to apply information about England prior to the 16th century to Wales, and I've modified the text accordingly.

Having put that criticism aside, I'd like to say that this has the makings of an interesting article which I hope will grow. Enaidmawr (talk) 21:46, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Revisiting this page I noticed, much to my surprise, a link to Jewish Communities in Wales prior to 1290. Full of curiosity I went to check it out. All it gives is a list of boroughs in Wales created by the English crown (although it doesn't state that). The logic, I suppose, is that Edward I ("nice man"!) expelled the Jews from England and that the writ included all boroughs: therefore the Welsh boroughs are included. However, what is not made clear on the web page is this:

1. There is no documentary evidence for Jewish communities in those boroughs or any other territory in Wales for which records survive from that period (stents, tax returns, etc).

2. Most of the boroughs were created late in the 13th century as the English took control. In the case of most of them, especially the North Wales boroughs, they were garrison towns of at most a couple of hundred inhabitants, mainly military families, created after the conquest of 1283. The Welsh were legally excluded.

3. Amongst the few non-garrison boroughs on the list is Bala. This was granted borough status in the mid 1280s. It was not an urban centre but a rural township in the heart of Welsh Wales. The only non-Welsh likely to visit - let alone live there! - would be English soldiers. And yet the list implies, without a shred of evidence, that a Jewish community existed there prior to the Expulsion of 1290: they would have had about five years to move in and settle down before being moved out!

No historian of Wales refers to Jewish communities in the medieval period, and with very good reason: as far as we know they did not exist. Enaidmawr (talk) 00:23, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

The reference given to Gerald of Wales telling of two monks converting to Judaism was from volume IV of the Rolls Series of his works (I checked the source website) and therefore has nothing to do with Wales. He wrote on a number of subjects: the Journey... and Description... are in vol. VI of that series and contain no mention of that story. I've removed the quote and reference and amended the text. Enaidmawr (talk) 16:57, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

This artical is very interesting indeed! I am glad it is created! I will look into my resources to see what I can uncover.Drachenfyre (talk) 07:26, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Tad anglocentric as usual. --MacRusgail (talk) 16:41, 7 June 2008 (UTC)