Talk:Historicity of the Book of Mormon

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is part of Latter Day Saint movement WikiProject, an attempt to provide comprehensive and detailed information about the Latter Day Saint movement and Mormonism on Wikipedia. To participate in the project, edit this article, visit the List of articles about the Latter Day Saint movement, the project page, and/or join the discussion. For writing guidelines about contributing to the project, you may want to read Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Latter Day Saints) and Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Latter Day Saints)
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the Project's quality scale.
(If you rated the article please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.)

The section on the Historicity at Book of Mormon have been deleted and a reference sent here. That means we have to neutralize this article, which seems to have problem. Let's mention one to start with.

"Critics believe that insufficient evidence in the pre-Columbian archaeological record for horses, cattle, swine, goats, wheat, steel swords, possible wheeled chariots and other elements mentioned in the Book of Mormon casts doubt on the authenticity of the Book of Mormon."

The actual situtation is that the overwhelming majority of non-LDS scholars believe that these technologies, animals or plants did not exist at the time the BOM describes. Calling them 'critics' implies that only those opposed to Mormonism believe this. Also "insufficient evidence" implies that there is a little, but not enough. In fact virtually the only evidence is LDS provided and disputed. DJ Clayworth (talk) 16:27, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Keep it Simple

Some of the sentences need to be simplified to provide clarity and better writing style to this article.--WaltFrost (talk) 22:21, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Please discuss

Let's remind people that discussion helps the process of producing a good article.

I've put back the reference to barley as being one of the items not found in the New World. That is the Smithsonian's opinion and I've referenced it. Please don't remove it without a more reliable counter-reference. DJ Clayworth (talk) 15:04, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

It be more correct to say that the Smithsonian used to say this. Current correspondence with them does not produce the same response. As for a counter-example, one need go no further than Wikipedia itself, which says that a form of barley, Hordeum pusillum ("little barley"), was cultivated (possibly even domesticated), in pre-Columbian times. As for mainstream scientific references, there are:
  • Daniel B. Adams, "Last Ditch Archaeology," Science 83 (December 1983): 32
  • V.L. Bohrer, "Domesticated and Wild Crops in the CAEP Study Area," in P.M. Spoerl and G.J. Gumerman, eds., Prehistoric Cultural Development in Central Arizona: Archaeology of the Upper New River Region (Southern Illinois University at Carbondale Center for Archaeological Investigations, Occasional paper 5, 1984): 252
  • Nancy and David Asch, "Archaeobotany," Deer Track: A Late Woodland Village in the Mississippi Valley, edited by Charles R. McGimsey and Michael D. Conner (Kampsville, Illinois: Center for American Archaeology, 1985), 44
  • Patricia L. Crown, "Classic Period Hohokam Settlement and Land Use in the Casa Grande Ruins Area, Arizona," Journal of Field Archaeology, Vol. 14, No. 2 (Summer, 1987), pp. 147-162
  • Bruce D. Smith, "Origins of Agriculture in Eastern North America," Science, New Series, Vol. 246, No. 4937 (Dec., 1989), pp. 1566-1571.
There's probably more, but this was the result of a quick search. --FyzixFighter (talk) 16:00, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Excellent. That's the sort of references we are looking for. You might want to think about finding somewhere to explain this in the article, because lots of sources cite barley as one of the things not present in the New World and some editor will add it. DJ Clayworth (talk) 16:07, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] LFrankow

Just a heads-up. Many of the links at the bottom of the article are dead. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lfrankow (talk • contribs) 15:31, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Chiasmus

The entire paragraph on Chiasmus has no references (except one explaining what Chiasmus is). It's going to have to go unless some references can be found. DJ Clayworth (talk) 15:17, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] LDS Apologists

Can anyone explain what the purpose of the section LDS Apologists is? The first three sentences would be agreed with by any archaeologist (They have little bearing on the historicity question except to confirm that some civilizations did exist). The final sentence is covered much better in succeeding sections. Could I maybe replace it with a statement of agreed facts and a pointer to later sections? DJ Clayworth (talk) 20:53, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

It's gone. DJ Clayworth (talk) 15:40, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Constancy of Language

Does anyone know whether there are statements about the language used in the supposed original plates of the BoM? In short, is there any record of whether the language in which 1 Nephi was supposedly originally written is the same in which the Book of Moroni was written? DJ Clayworth (talk) 15:43, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Interesting question. I've never heard anyone talk about anything other than "Reformed Egyptian"--no "Old Reformed Egyptian", "Partially Reformed Egyptian", "Mostly Egyptian", or any other such distinction in the language of the plates. Since the plates (never existed / are no longer available for examination) it's more of an academic musing than anything else I'm afraid. Smith never said anything about a different language in the beginning than in the end. He only talked about "Reformed Egyptian" as a unitary language. Even the Book of Ether is Moroni's edit (and translation?) of older materials so it would have been in "Reformed Egyptian" as well. (Taivo (talk) 18:26, 20 February 2008 (UTC))

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:City of zarahemla the testaments film lds.jpg

The image Image:City of zarahemla the testaments film lds.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

  • That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
  • That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --23:51, 19 May 2008 (UTC)