Talk:High-functioning autism

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[edit] older entries

This is horrendous and needs attention badly. I'll see what I can do tomorrow. FatherGuidoSarducci

If you or someone else does (and keeps the no original research violating correlations), see my comment here on personality correlations (etc...). -- Tomorrow came and went 24.22.227.53 19:31, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

err i think the article is inacurate in many ways and needs work. 1 i am a person with aspbergrs (correction-asperger!) syndrome and i CANNOT function near normal in soceity. to make a absolute statement that every high end autistic can is a really terrible thing to say and isa stright out LIE for one i have dysgraphya and a few other learning disabilitys accoiated with aspebergrs that makes working and social functions very hard. please read about high end autism before you write anything and take it all into account- thank you

The term Asperger syndrome is generally used to refer to those who can function in society -- if one has multiple diagnoses, this changes the situation. Other learning disabilities may be associated with Aspberger's, but they are not linked to it directly. Poesian 20:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I believe several points need to be taken into account here. 1-'Neurotypicals' with autistic traits are not high-functioning autistics. 2-The use of labels such as Asperger Syndrome vs Kanner Autism are not standardised. As in the above paragraph, care must be taken to clarify that not all aspies lack functioning problems, for example. 3-Controversies_about_functioning_labels_in_the_autism_spectrum should be more than a 'see-also'; this article is based on assumptions which it challenges. --196.25.255.210 21:10, 27 December 2005 (UTC) (asperger's and hfa are different things! pull it together!I am hfa marked by serius speech delay!) It should be noted that recent research, as quoted in Time Magazine shows that many patients with low-level autism are not, in fact, mentally retarded. Through therapy, advances in communication are being made, allowing patients to "speak" through an interpreter. Oftentimes, this "speech" shows a high level of comprehension and intellect.

[edit] So much conflation, so little time

This article conflates high-functioning autism with Asperger's syndrome in the introduction (when this is far from the consensus) and later distinguishes HFA from "autism," where I take autism to mean low-functioning autism. In truth, high-functioning autism is a diagnosis of autistic disorder (DSM-IV-TR) or childhood autism (ICD-10) without mental retardation (an otherwise relatively high level of adapative functioning).

Also, this article is heavy on speculation and personal opinion (like the MBTI stuff) and needs to cite more professional, scholarly sources.--NeantHumain 22:54, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

This is not a joust at content or POV so much as form and substance here.

This statement:

“HFA is sometimes also known as Asperger syndrome, however this is a misnomer.”

is in conflict with

“Experts disagree on whether or not high-functioning autism and Asperger's syndrome are synonymous, but both, by definition, require a relatively high level of adaptive functioning in comparison to low-functioning autism.”
1. It is a misnomer but experts have not reached consensus and they may or may not be defined the same way?
2. The DSM and the ICD have this categorization? As you say, it does not.

This statement could lead somewhere but we need to know where the debate is taking place:

"The difference is that in Asperger syndrome there is no linguistic delay however there is in HFA.”

Calling this a misnomer at the start presents problems. The opening statement needs to be revised to reflect the disputed scientific view, not an undisputed viewpoint.

Another small glitch:

"In everyday terms, those who are affected by it may be understood as being "eccentrics", "nerds", "geeks", or termed a "little professor" or boffin.

This is also the term Hans Asperger used, ‘little professors.’

It is entirely possible that the references listed in the section below the article could be used to muster the needed citations. With a balanced rewrite to reflect the POV issues at hand (all too common in science and that is as it should be), this could be a valuable addition to the Wikipedia “Autism” collection. Hope you find time in the near future. Malangthon 00:25, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

So much of not enough

I think what ever is not redundant here (much of it simply overlaps with the Autism article for example), should be given sources and then placed in the Autism or Asperger's article. I went through hundreds of documents on PubMed and this is a very loose term with very little if any identified criteria--at this time. But the article begins by saying this is not a real condition and has no formal definition but then it just goes on as if the veracity was established- This could be a disambiguation, it could be the focus of a section in another article to demonstrate disputes in the field, but it is not an entire article. Malangthon 07:23, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

The opening line has been stripped of everything that can not be substantiated or is simply incorrect. Here is what I deleted: "People with the diagnosis of high-functioning autism still experience substantial and pervasive difficulties in society. HFA is a developmental disorder similar to Asperger's Syndrome, however, HFA is usually a more pronounced disorder, particularly because of HFA's congruent language delay. "

Basically, a high-functioning autistic person is autistic and has a higher I.Q. than autistic people with lower I.Q.s. That is it. They are not retarded, not cognitively challenged. It is a part of the diagnosis and is not a separate aspect or disorder. Until someone can come up with reputable sources (and not commercial vendors trying to make a buck no matter how altruistic), this really needs a serious rewrite. Malangthon 20:11, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

So Close

The citation for this paragraph "There is some evidence that the label has wrongly become a catch-all diagnosis for badly-behaved children. In 2000 in the UK, the lead clinician and autism specialist at Northgate and Prudhoe NHS Trust in Morpeth, Dr Tom Berney, published a paper commenting on this. He wrote in the prestigious British Journal of Psychiatry:- "There is a risk of the diagnosis of autism being extended to include anyone whose odd and troublesome personality does not readily fit some other category. Such over-inclusion is likely to devalue the diagnosis to a meaningless label."[citation needed]"

Lacked

  • Title of paper
  • Volume and number of journal issue
  • Page--it is a quote

Malangthon 20:23, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Templates

Added them to sections since putting them out for statments was just tedious. The issue is there, the need for a short article is demonstrable, but this is not it. Malangthon 00:43, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DSM IV GAF Scale

The GAF scale is the 5th diagnostic axis of the DSM-IV. GAF means Global assessment of Functioning. A broad functioning level label could be derived from that, maybe also combined with IQ. Maybe even add more tiers (VHFA, HFA, MFA, LFA, VLFA). VHFA would be GAF 51-70, IQ 92.5+ (>-0.5 SD) HFA would be GAF 41-60, IQ 77.5-92.5 (-1.5 to -0.5 SD). MFA would be GAF 31-50, IQ 55-77.5 (-3 to -1.5 SD). LFA would be GAF 21-40, IQ 40-55 (-4 to -3 SD). VLFA would be GAF <31, IQ<40 (<-4 SD). I made the GAF ranges intentially overlap as cognitive impairment can add to the decline of functioning on top of the base autistic impairments.

IQ is a mean of 100 and a Standard Deviation of 15. Poeople who are sensory Kinesthetic dominant have an unfair disadvantage with the WAIS-R. Here's the GAF Scale:

  • 91-100 Superior functioning in a wide range of activities, life's problems never seem to get out of hand, is sought out by others because of his or her many qualities. No symptoms.
  • 90-81 Absent or minimal symptoms, good functioning in all areas, interested and involved in a wide range of activities, socially effective, generally satisfied with life, no more than everyday problems or concerns.
  • 80-71 If symptoms are present they are transient and expectable reactions to psychosocial stresses; no more than slight impairment in social, occupational, or school functioning.
  • 70-61 Some mild symptoms OR some difficulty in social, occupational, or school functioning, but generally functioning pretty well, has some meaningful interpersonal relationships.
  • 60-51 Moderate symptoms OR any moderate difficulty in social, occupational, or school functioning.
  • 50-41 Serious symptoms OR any serious impairment in social, occupational, or school functioning.
  • 40-31 Some impairment in reality testing or communication OR major impairment in several areas, such as work or school, family relations, judgment, thinking, or mood.
  • 30-21 Behavior is considered influenced by delusions or hallucinations OR serious impairment in communications or judgment OR inability to function in all areas.
  • 20-11 Some danger or hurting self or others OR occasionally fails to maintain minimal personal hygiene OR gross impairment in communication.
  • 10-1 Persistent danger of severely hurting self or others OR persistent inability to maintain minimum personal hygiene OR serious suicidal act with clear expectation of death.
  • 0 Not enough information available to provide GAF--GreatInca 20:23, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Benefits section

Does anyone have, well, any research at all demonstrating these benefits (particularly correlation with honesty or problem solving, and so on), or can this section simply be deleted? Never mind original research, I'm not seeing any research there at all. Jon R W 03:49, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Asperger or HFA

WhatAmIDoing removed the failed verification tag here; the article is clearly discussing Asperger as a form of autism, not HFA. Pls explain? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:37, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Uncited essay removed from "Social aspects"

Children with HFA may appear somewhat removed or dissociated or dreamy at times, especially when in sensory overload or from a perception of extreme social pressure. They may make little eye contact, leading others to conclude that they are shy, uninterested or evasive.

As with people elsewhere on the autistic spectrum transitioning from one activity to another can be highly stressful, especially unpredictable changes. Because of this, people with high-functioning autism generally prefer a scheduled routine and order from a very young age. Many high-functioning autistic children use daily schedules to minimize anxiety, and often incorporate structure into their lives themselves. They may, for example, write an alphabetized index of their comic book collection, or they may stick to a limited wardrobe.

SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:02, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Uncited essay removed from "Asociated difficulties"

People may label HFA people as "oddballs" or worse, and HFA people can easily become the target of bullying. This can be especially true from primary school through the late teens. Young, intelligent HFA people usually do best by seeking out the company of their intellectual peers or by joining hobby groups, while avoiding their age-group peers. Exposure to an age equivalent peer group within the autism spectrum on a regular basis can be especially beneficial.

Attending social and business events to network is also proven to play a crucial role in job hunting, but events such as these are the type that HFA people usually avoid due to their unease with the complex social interactions required. Difficulties with such pre-employment factors may contribute to comparative poverty, although intelligent HFA adults can usually find a good job if they can specialise in their area of interest. Once in a good job, however, their talents may lead to promotion and they may find themselves in a new job description that does not fit their personality.

Some may have minor to moderate difficulty with motor skills and co-ordination. This may manifest itself as mere clumsiness or awkwardness but in some instances can be found at a level where the child is a danger to themselves (this is especially true when younger), but may manifest itself in adulthood by "bumping into walls" and doors or other people without intention. Some may also nurture a complex habitual movement (called stereotypy) at which they become adept, for example, pen spinning, while otherwise being prone to clumsiness. These difficulties can be overcome through sensory integration therapy.

They do not necessarily lack empathy (although they may have difficulty expressing it), and can thus enjoy films and stories with emotional content. Some may gain the bulk of their insight into why people behave the way they do through watching movies that provide a forceful and musically-cued "capsule lesson" in human emotions (e.g. melodramas).

SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:05, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Removed from "Characteristics", not about HFA

Nevertheless they are capable of social reasoning. Children with autism can understand stereotypes, social roles and other forms of social reasoning. Many examples include understanding the role of cashier in a supermarket and locking the doors when in certain neighborhoods.[1]

Source makes no mention of HFA, is about autism in general, not specific to HFA. Also, should be sourced to PMID 17580071 not the media. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:41, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Generally, there are difficulties with social interaction. This might not adversely affect their ability to interact with others on a day-to-day basis at a basic working level, although they may be seen as being overly serious or earnest, and as being without any "small talk" in conversation. In many instances though, these individuals have such severe social delays and difficulties that interaction within a "normal" social setting can be severely hampered. Although Tristan Lavender of Leiden Universiteit says Autistic children may be more emotional than most people think. She believes Autistic children are capable of listening to conversation and finding out how they feel through words even if they happen to not exchange words with the people having the conversation.[2]

Sourced to a personal website that never mentions HFA, is about autism in general. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:44, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

They may have difficulty initiating love and friendship relationships due to less developed social skills, a perceived inexpressiveness, and a difficulty recognizing subtle and nonverbal messages from others. One method HFA children and adults use to get around this is communicating through email and the internet. Many of the children and adults claim it is one way that helps them bypass the mass amount of social skills they feel are needed to interact with the average person. They also claim it allows them to communicate at their own pace.[3]

Source is about autism in general, doesn't mention HFA, and topic is already covered at Sociological and cultural aspects of autism. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:47, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Given the proven crucial role of body language in job interviews, lack of eye contact in such a situation may be perceived by potential employers as indicating that the candidate is "not telling the truth" or "uninterested in the job" (which is actually a myth[4]), and thus lead to a cumulative difficulty in finding employment. A study from Nottingham University says that autistic chidlren actually can interpret other peoples mental states by looking at their eyes. In the study conducted the autistic participants were actually able to read animated facial expressions. The researchers say that the tests done on children with this condtion using still pictures were actually inaccurate and that the suggested alterantive to better determine the capabalitites of these children is using moving images.[5]

No mention of HFA in the source, also should cite actual study not press release, and first sentence is original research unrelated to this article. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:51, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Autistic people are prone to commit social faux pas because of an inability to predict others' reactions. They may also neglect social niceties like knocking or returning a greeting. Similarly, they may be overly trusting or paranoid of strangers. It may be best summed up as an inability to understand/perceive the intent or emotional wants and needs of others around them. Licensed psychologist Scott Bellini, of Indiana University, has demonstrated that autistic children not only want to develop social relationships, but are actually able to build relationships with peers through social skills training.[6] People with autism can also be taught how society works according to a study conducted at the university of Haifa, which found that children with autism can use virtual reality simulations to learn about the complex rules of society.[7]

Neither source mentions HFA, not about HFA, about autism, and remove vanity entry (we should write about the research, not the researchers). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:54, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Removed from "Epidemiology"

HFA affects far more males than females. The ASD sex ratio, which averages 4.3:1, is greatly modified by cognitive impairment: it may be close to 2:1 with mental retardation and more than 5.5:1 for HFA.[8]

Not about HFA, about ASD, covered elsewhere. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:59, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Can you at least add all the information you removed to the autism section?. I have autism and KI find the page lacking. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.232.78.52 (talk) 19:47, 16 February 2008 (UTC)