Talk:Hardline (subculture)

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Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on 26 March 2008. The result of the discussion was keep.
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The previous article bordered on stub status and suffered from some language difficulties. I'm intimately familiar with Hardline's history so I took the liberty of doing some serious revisions.

Contents

[edit] Straight Edge, Hardline and Veganism

I think the article doesn't state clear enough that vegan straight edge and hardline were two completely separated evolutions. When reading this article, one might think that Hardline developed Straight Edge towards veganism, and that a vegan straight-edger is a hardliner. This is absolutely not the case: veganism became a part of straight edge for many people since the mid-eighties, and still today many straight-edgers are vegan. Those people have nothing to do with hardline, and most of them even actively oppose hardline. The article should focus more on the basic difference between the two: straight edge is a philosophy that can be fit into many very different political ideas, while hardline is a full blown ideology that grew out of it and has aspects of eco-fascism, totalitarianism (see the 'central comittee'), abrahamic religion and activism. Also, I think the article should mention the fact that hardline has given the straight edge philosophy a very bad reputation: "Vanguard" is often cited as a 'straight edge magazine' in articles that critically analyze right-wing tendencies within veganism. Cases of violence coming from groups of hardliners are almost always called ´ straight edge violence'; of course this violence goes back to an intolerant interpretation of straight edge and thus is related to it, but many sources fail to differentiate between straight edge and hardline. Just for the record, I am personally neither 'straight edge' nor 'hardline'. PS: I also think this article should not be deleted as it is highly informative and as far as I know not too far from the truth.82.114.160.32 (talk) 13:20, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Uh, what?

Could someone add detail to the point of proving this exists? The hardline I know of is nothing like this. Or are hardcore and hardline different? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Skrayl (talk • contribs) 02:42, 2 January 2008 (UTC) -- Of course hardcore and hardline our different. The first is a kind of music that has it roots in punkrock music, the second is an ideology that has it roots in straight edge philosophy. I think this comment/question should be deleted. 82.114.160.32 (talk) 13:20, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] cursing?

"The Hardline philosophy forbids its adherents from smoking or chewing any form of tobacco, drinking alcoholic beverages, and using illicit drugs or modern medicines, cursing, and consuming meat/animal products. In addition, Hardliners are expected to follow a strict dietary regimen."

Does this need to be included? I dont think that cursing was ever an issue... unless its become part of the platform since hardline's "islamization". AwesomeCrom 01:27, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] impressive!

Very thorough and a huge improvement over the previous article! I don't think it's necessary or positive to mention full names, though, what with security culture concerns and all. I also think that the involvement of Micah and the Cincy chapter should be mentioned, since they are so very vocal these days.

[edit] Lacks criticism

This is an obvious case of "until the lions have historians, tales of hunting will always glorify the hunter". There are quite obvious language problems here and a lack of historical analysis of what Hardline was, where it came from, why it fizzled out.

[edit] hardline is really the source of grafting "vegan" and "straightedge"?

it seems that some mention should be made that ian mackeye -- the lyricist almost universally credited with outlining the straight-edge movement -- is, in fact, a vegan, as is (auspiciously) the rest of fugazi. i'm not sure if that pre-dates rat and muttaqi (and we may never know, because it seems mackeye seems to have pretty heavily distanced himself from trying to define his straight-edge beliefs), it certainly seems to make the discussion murky. since mackeye is vaguely critical of more radical straight-edge movements of which hardline is an extreme example of, it seems unlikely that he would have been directly influenced by the latter. this doesn't mean that mackeye can be credited with every aspect of straight-edge, but if someone can find a citation that talks about this, i think it has a place in the straight-edge/vegan origins discussion on this page.

71.56.70.127 07:24, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

I must say too, it's a very complete and thorough presentation. I am discovering this movement, and I must say something is definitely not clear to me. This is supposed to have derived from Straight Edge... So, straight edge is supposed to be linked to anarchism, socialism political ideas. And yet I find this "Hardline" thing totally opposite. The complete adoration of nature leading to pro-life (therefore against women's choice) a complete opposition to basic socialist or anarchist humanism.
As stated above: this has NOTHING to do with anarchist. I am removing it from the Category:Anarchism. Cacuija (my talk) 06:22, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
There was never anything political about the straight edge philosophy. It was always just an individual lifestyle choice, nothing more or less. This hardline thing destroyed that definition by taking the principles and creating a cult-like mentality. I don't know how or really why one would become a "hardliner", but any way it seems like a big load of conformist dogma.

[edit] need disambiguation page for "hardline"

Hi,

I ran into "hardline" while researching cellulose insulation for a historic house. A testing lab mentioned that it tests "hardlines" and "softlines." Apparently these are business jargon for the older expressions "hard goods" and "soft goods." But I could not find a clear definition using google's define: or using answers.com.

I haven't time to go to glossarist.com or bartleby.com.

--Bob

[edit] Hard-line vs. Hardline

I'm moving this article from its current title (Hard-line) to Hardline. As far as I know, hardline is a non-hyphenated word, and most literature about the hardline movement I've read tends to omit the hyphen. Even the text of the article itself doesn't use the hyphen. Ecto 01:21, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ELF/ALF Connection

http://www.furcommission.com/news/newsE36.htm Does anyone care to make an edit accordingly?


[edit] History Section

The History section rambles. Anyone care to edit? --poopsix 16:58, 4 January 2007 (UTC)


==

[edit] Headline text

==

[edit] HCC?

Vanguard was the official magazine of the Hardline movement. As the movement ebbed and flowed, the magazine was sporadically published before releasing a final issue in the late 1990's, in which the HCC (Hardline Central Committee) announced that Hardline, as an organized movement, was being disbanded. --this was the text of an article that was deleted. It this sourceable? Puddytang 01:39, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Not a religion

This article is not within the scope of Wiki Project Religion, because Hardline is not a religion. No debate necessary.

[edit] 1699

In the fourth paragraph of the origin section, it said that Vegan Reich regrouped briefly in 1699. Now, I don't know too much about that, but I'd say that's a typo and meant to be 1999? Can anybody who does know fix that up please? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Geriatric.cheeseman (talk • contribs) 09:07, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Tagged for deletion - why?

I must admit I'm too old to know about such subcultural things, but why the deletion tag? I came across this article during some research of my own, and I found it useful and informative, and it linked in with other stuff about straight edge which I found by googling. So why delete it? Gwaka Lumpa (talk) 15:47, 4 April 2008 (UTC)