Talk:Hang Tuah

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 This article is supported by WikiProject Malaysia.

This project provides a central approach to Malaysia-related subjects on Wikipedia.
Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the Project's quality scale.
(If you rated the article please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.)
High This article has been rated as High-importance on the importance scale.
 WikiProject Southeast Asia This article is within the scope of WikiProject Southeast Asia, a project to improve Wikipedia's articles on Southeast Asia-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.
Start This article has been rated as Start on the Project's quality scale.
(If you rated the article please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.)
This article falls within the scope of the Brunei work group. If you are interested in articles relating to Brunei, please visit the project page to see how you can help.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page.
Biography Portal
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale. [FAQ]

The phrase "Takkan Melayu Hilang di Dunia" is actually means "Malay will never be faded from this world"...I've translated it into a true form of its meaning...While the word "conquered" that Borisblue wrote was actually a figurative. -user:blozzee


For Takkan Melayu Hilang di Dunia is "No Malays will be vanished and conquered" really a correct translation? I've changed it. I've also removed the "unreferenced" tag. This stuff is famous malay folklore, for one thing, you can get the stories from Malaysia's Secondary School literature textbooks. -user:Borisblue

Contents

[edit] Hang Tuah is a chinese

After long story about Hang Tuah and Hang Jebat. The history book also writen their story and where they born and their race.

According to latest searching and analysis done recently (2007). Hang Tuah and Hang Jebat is brother. "Hang" actually is chinese sir name. And both of them is send from china to melaka to protect sultan melaka.

But dont know when and how, they suddenly change become malay and and born in malaysia also.

Please do not change the fact. The coming generation will miss out all the actual history. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.54.129.45 (talk • contribs)

Please provide reliable source. __earth (Talk) 08:31, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hang Tuah, a Malay hero or a Chinese?

I have recently read an articles from the Internet claiming that Hang Tuah is not a Malay. In fact, Hang Tuah is a Chinese who has been sent to protect the Malay kingdom.

http://www.yellowbamboohk.com/yellowbamboo/Origins%20of%20Hang%20Tuah%20by%20John%20Chow.html

http://waghih.blogspot.com/2006/05/hang-tuah-sebenarnya-berbangsa-cina.html

Should the world allow any government to hide the fact from its citizen?

Any ordinary Joe can write stuff on the internet. Wikipedia requires better sources, such as newspaper articles or academic journals. Wikipedia:verifiability states Anyone can create a website or pay to have a book published, and then claim to be an expert in a certain field. For that reason, self-published books, personal websites, and blogs are largely not acceptable as sources.

Borisblue 16:40, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hang Tuah is not originate from Malacca

According to Sejarah Melayu(History of Malays), Hang Tuah is not actually originate from Malacca but from Sulawesi.Hang Tuah is actually a present from the Sultan of Bugis to Sultan of Malacca.But what is important is that he is not a chinese because the Malay people is too proud of their race, this means that it is impossible for them to wrote a lot about Hang Tuah if he is a chinese.I hope the page about Hang Tuah will be edited with more references.

Hang Tuah being chinese is a very debatable subject. There has been talk about it, and through word of mouth, many are getting convinced. This is the first time where a huge monument of Malay architecture has been questioned, and the implication is great.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.111.46.95 (talk • contribs)
Debatable because you read such allegation through chain mail? Find a reputable academic source and we'll talk. Word of mouth and chain mail falls into WP:NOT, WP:ATT, WP:OR, among others. __earth (Talk) 02:58, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
Hang Tuah's origins as a chinese is of course debatable. If this discussion topic NEEDS to be under said category, then it shall be. I've been threatened by user WaiHong to not vandalise this page, so I shall not. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 218.111.46.95 (talk) 05:57, 6 May 2007 (UTC).
There is no debate whatsoever. Please produce a reliable source to back up your claims. Borisblue 07:19, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Disputes about Hang Tuah's origin

It turns out that some people have disputed Hang Tuah's origin. It is recently believed that Hang Tuah is neither from Malacca or Sulawesi, but from China. Here are some compelling arguments to support that viewpoint:

1. Hang Tuah's name itself is a linguistic curiosity from the perspective of the Malay language. Malays do not have surnames. On the other hand, Hang is a pretty common Chinese surname. Furthermore, the Hang Tuah is the eldest in his family. 'Tuah' actually means big or eldest in a Chinese dialect, Hokkien or Fukien.

2. Hang Tuah brought a Chinese princess to marry the Sultan of Malacca. Her name was Hang Li Po. Both of them have the same surname 'Hang'.

3. The DNA samples of the Hang Tuah and his fellow men were analysed. They were not Malays but Chinese. During their time, there were already Islamic Chinese in China. They were sent to Malacca to protect the region from the Siamese attacks. Malacca was a very weak and fragile kingdom.

4. The Sultans during that time (even up to now) put on yellow garments and fabrics as a symbol of royalty. That was actually inherited from Ming Dynasty. This could only suggest the relationship between Hang Tuah's popularity and influence over Malacca and the Sultan's conformity to Chinese culture.

I have no citations, but simple common sense would compel anyone to at least doubt Hang Tuah's origin, or the sovereignty of the Malaccan kingdom. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by P$3ud0Nym (talk • contribs) 03:51, 8 December 2006 (UTC).

Simple common sense? That's not common sense.. that's insane! →Izzudin (talk) 15:49, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
Izzudin, please be polite.Ancos (talk) 07:45, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Please see WP:Reliable Sources and WP:No Original Research Borisblue 03:54, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Disputing the Dispute about Hang Tuah's Origin

First of all, let me just state that i'm an ordinary guy with limited education, but with that kind of argument(see above), one could say that Justice Bao is an Indian just because he has dark skin (or so his enemies say)!!! Also, i would like to ask a few questions regarding the collecting of Hang Tuah and his companions' DNA. How did they get their hands on Jebat's Dna? i thought he was a traitor to the Sultan. traitors during that time didn't get the honour of being buried in the Muslim manner. No. Traitors would be executed, their family members would be executed, and their bodies thronw into the sea. second, Princess Li Po did not come to Malacca with the surname Hang. the title was awarded to her by Sultan Mansur. It's in the Sejarah Melayu. and there is mentioning of the title Perhangan in the SM, and in one of the chapters of the SM, there were SEVEN men who bore the title Hang, not five as mentioned in the HHT. Hang Tuah came into Malacca's service during Sultan Mnsur Syah's reign. how did he have influence over what the Sultan wears? the 'Yellow Rights' of the Malay kings were introduced during the reign of Mansur's grandfather (Megat Iskandar Syah). And by the way, Tuah means fortunate in Malay.

[edit] What I understand so far...

From the discussion threads that there are still on going discusion on the race of Hang Tuah, is he Malay or Chinese. Just to add some more issues (instead of resolving the existing ones):

- I have read somewhere that he was born and raised in Sungai Duyong, Melaka and that his father is a fisherman (a normal occupation for malay in that age)

- regarding Jebat's DNA, some report says that he had a son with one of the dayangs named Hang Kadim/Nadim and the Bendahara hid him when being ordered by the Sultan to eradicate Jebat's family, thus providing channel for the DNA test. However, i might have miss on something, when and who have conducted these DNA testings?

- I agree that the HANG in Hang Li Po was awarded by the Sultan after her arrival and that is not the family name of the princess

- The Malacca Sultanate wears yellow in respect of the Ming Dynasty, in sense of the existence of relationship between the two kingdom and the Sultan feels that he has the same status as the Ming, thus he elected to wear yellow as symbol of power and sovereignty, just like the Mings That's my issues so far

DEMIGODICARUS (talk) 10:21, 31 December 2007 (UTC)