User talk:Haiduc
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[edit] Troilus
Thanks for the latest piccy. It is good to have an illustration in a different medium. I'll have to work out where to fit it. Pity that they didn't have the EUphronius on display so that we could get a better image.--Peter cohen (talk) 11:44, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Herodes Atticus
Hi Haiduc. First of all, I wish you a very happy new year! May fair-haired Apollo serve you goblets filled with Castalian water.
I'm looking for sources about Herodes Atticus pederastic loves, especially his three alumni, Achilles, Memnon and Polydeukion. Do you have some pointers? Jastrow (Λέγετε) 14:48, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
- I'm presently writing the fr: article, hence my question ;-) Thanks for the ref. Jastrow (Λέγετε) 17:05, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Heterosexuality
Hello Haiduc, This is an old (2005) discussion of yours: Talk:Heterosexuality. You gave a link to reviews of Rocke's Forbidden Friendships on a second hand book site, and (naturally) it is gone now. It's not really important I think, but when I'm hitting on it, probably more people will. Could you revive the link somehow? It's a very interesting and surprising study, that merits more attention. Soczyczi (talk) 00:56, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Discussion of Davidson delete
Our article on The World, The Flesh and Myself leaves no doubt that the man involved was convicted of child sexual abuse, and there is no indication that the child involved is not dead. That is a serious WP:BLP issue. The child should not be named. I think your idea of using initials instead of names is an excellent one. MB83 (talk) 06:18, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Perugia
Nice find. When I visited Perugia the Museum was undergoing the usual, never-ending, "rearrangment" works, and could be visited only partly. So if you have more about it to upload, that would be great. Best wishes. --G.dallorto (talk) 16:56, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Islam, H
The problem here is that none of this is sourced. --Matt57 (talk•contribs) 00:12, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] LGBT WikiProject Newsletter
| The LGBT studies WikiProject Newsletter | |||||
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Delivered sometime in January 2008 (UTC). SatyrBot (talk) 23:32, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Ming Dynasty
No, no Puritan slant was intended. Hi, I'm PericlesofAthens, but if you're a member of ChinaHistoryForum, you might know me as Non-Han-Nan-Ban. Recently, at ChinaHistoryForum, I began a thread about the late Ming gentry's heterosexual love with courtesans and homosexual love with singing boys and male servants. You wouldn't happen to be referring to that, would you? I own Timothy Brook's book (obviously), and I don't know if you've noticed, but I've included in the "Literature and arts" sub-section of Ming Dynasty a small mention at the end of one paragraph about the gentry pursuing courtesans to reenact the heroic romance of late Ming novels and literature. Don't know if that will satisfy you or others when it comes to sexuality in Ming China, but it's a start. After all, I might start a sub-article for Ming Dynasty about culture and include all of that info in it. Cheers.--Pericles of AthensTalk 22:56, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
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- All good suggestions, but the problem is where to mention sex in the late Ming? I can't think of a single current section where the topic of sex (even a random sentence that links to another article) is warranted for inclusion and wouldn't break from the section's topic. Maybe I could include it in the "Urban and rural life" section? Since it was the upper class gentry of the late Ming period who engaged in liaisons with female courtesans and male singing boys and the like, it could fit in with the theme of urban life. What do you think?--Pericles of AthensTalk 14:56, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
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- I've addressed your concerns by adding a couple sentences about the topic to that section. I hope it suits what you wanted to see. Cheers.--Pericles of AthensTalk 22:26, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
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- That's the entire point that Brook is trying to make. Pederasty was such a rare fetishized taboo that only the richest of the rich would use it to flaunt distinction and status; even though it was widespread in the late Ming, not every gentry or merchant or official engaged in this, as it was originally not a mark of distinction but of moral decay. Brook writes: "This fashion was accordingly differenlty constructed than courtesanship: more daring, repugnant to sexual norms, indifferent to ideologies of self-cultivation and loyalism. While it may be that the expression of natural homoerotic desire could only burst forth with the peculiar erosion of Confucian norms in the sixteenth century, those norms paradoxically ensured that pederasty was a sexual fashion beyond emotional reach of most people, and for that reason rich in social credit." As Brook makes emphatically clear in the next paragraph, pederasty ceased to be a demarcation of high social status after the fall of the Ming, as many old writers in the mid to late 17th century looked back on the era with nostalgia, when having sex with boys proved one was so incredibly rich that taboos were meaningless and anything could be acquired because it was a statement of rarity and power.--Pericles of AthensTalk 04:02, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
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- Not to give the impression that there weren't documented cases of homosexuality before the Ming Dynasty, it's just that during the late Ming it became more accepted amongst the elite.--Pericles of AthensTalk 04:09, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
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- That's the entire point that Brook is trying to make. Pederasty was such a rare fetishized taboo that only the richest of the rich would use it to flaunt distinction and status; even though it was widespread in the late Ming, not every gentry or merchant or official engaged in this, as it was originally not a mark of distinction but of moral decay. Brook writes: "This fashion was accordingly differenlty constructed than courtesanship: more daring, repugnant to sexual norms, indifferent to ideologies of self-cultivation and loyalism. While it may be that the expression of natural homoerotic desire could only burst forth with the peculiar erosion of Confucian norms in the sixteenth century, those norms paradoxically ensured that pederasty was a sexual fashion beyond emotional reach of most people, and for that reason rich in social credit." As Brook makes emphatically clear in the next paragraph, pederasty ceased to be a demarcation of high social status after the fall of the Ming, as many old writers in the mid to late 17th century looked back on the era with nostalgia, when having sex with boys proved one was so incredibly rich that taboos were meaningless and anything could be acquired because it was a statement of rarity and power.--Pericles of AthensTalk 04:02, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
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- I've addressed your concerns by adding a couple sentences about the topic to that section. I hope it suits what you wanted to see. Cheers.--Pericles of AthensTalk 22:26, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
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- All good suggestions, but the problem is where to mention sex in the late Ming? I can't think of a single current section where the topic of sex (even a random sentence that links to another article) is warranted for inclusion and wouldn't break from the section's topic. Maybe I could include it in the "Urban and rural life" section? Since it was the upper class gentry of the late Ming period who engaged in liaisons with female courtesans and male singing boys and the like, it could fit in with the theme of urban life. What do you think?--Pericles of AthensTalk 14:56, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Pederasty
You should be more careful, if you put articles or categories in the section pederasty. I found some mistakes and wrong articles there. GLGermann (talk) 07:51, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
- i think people should only in this category if it is absolute clear, for example a love affair in young years with 19 or 20 years with somone who is 13 or 14 is no hint for pederasty. GLGermann (talk) 08:13, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] AfD nomination of Albanian pederasty
An editor has nominated Albanian pederasty, an article on which you have worked or that you created, for deletion. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also "What Wikipedia is not").
Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Albanian pederasty and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~).
You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 21:01, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Speedy deletion of Robert Baden-Powell's sexual orientation
Please do not make personal attacks. Wikipedia has a strict policy against personal attacks. Attack pages and images are not tolerated by Wikipedia and are speedily deleted. Users who continue to create or repost such pages and images in violation of our biographies of living persons policy will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. Thank you.
If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the article's talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Calvin 1998 Talk Contribs 06:43, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] AfD nomination of Robert Baden-Powell's sexual orientation
I have nominated Robert Baden-Powell's sexual orientation, an article you created, for deletion. I do not feel that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Robert Baden-Powell's sexual orientation (2nd nomination). Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. Dethme0w (talk) 06:54, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Cathal O'Searcaigh Page
Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to make constructive contributions to Wikipedia, at least one of your recent edits, such as the one you made to Cathal_Ó_Searcaigh, did not appear to be constructive and has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you.
[edit] "pursuing a slanderous agenda against a living person"
Hi Haiduc, you left the following message on my talk page:
"You would be well advised to desist from leaving spurious material on my talk page, and from pursuing a slanderous agenda against a living person, or anyone at all."
This is quite comical My single contribution to the Cathal Ó Searcaigh page was a sourced quote from his defender, Maire Mhac an tSaoi. The source is backed up with the actual audio from the radio program she appeared on.
I'd be delighted if you could explain how repeating someone's exact quote is "slander". I have to come to the conclusion that (a) you have no understanding of legal terminology whatsoever, and/or (b) you are throwing around threats in an attempt to intimidate other editors of the page. Not a tactic that will work.
P.--Paul Moloney (talk) 14:59, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] images
Hi, some images that you uploaded have been removed from commons. e.g. commons:Image:Julius Caesar Italian marble 19th c..jpg . Some of them have been listed at commons:User talk:Haiduc. If you dont already have email enabled on Commons, it would be a good idea to enable it so you are aware of these events before the files are deleted. Regarding "Image:Julius Caesar Italian marble 19th c..jpg", by Maxwell Wolf, which was marked as "free requiring attribution", do you have (or can you obtain) some form of evidence that the copyright holder has granted it under this license. If so, please let me know, or forward the evidence to permissions@wikimedia.org so that the image can be restored. If you need the help of an admin to correct any of these deletions, I'll be happy to help. John Vandenberg (talk) 16:12, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] LGBT WikiProject Newsletter
| The LGBT studies WikiProject Newsletter | |||||
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Delivered by SatyrBot around 17:14, 3 March 2008 (UTC) SatyrBot (talk) 17:35, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Resolution near (?) on how to entitle Tony Sandel's lists of books portraying sexual attraction to children
Please visit Talk:List_of_works_portraying_adult_attraction_to_young_males#Requested_move. Tony has accepted a proposal for a new title that may put to rest objections dating back to late 2006. Your input in the next few days would be appreciated. You participated in earlier discussions of this question and related questions about that work. SocJan (talk) 03:32, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
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- Thanks for your very constructive participation in this discussion. My idea of "child" has been similar to what I take yours to be -- pre-adolescent and (at the latest) early-adolescent. But dictionaries, including Wikipedia's, clearly cast a wider net. I think the only hope we have of getting a title that all can agree upon is to put aside our own preferred uses of words and refer instead to official definitions whenever we can -- preferably, definitions found in Wikipedia. It was private and divergent interpretations of "pedophilia" and "child sexual abuse", as I read the record, that were causing most of the controversy on this page. So, against my usual reservations, I've come around to acception "sexual attraction" and "children" as closer to what the article is about, if still not perfect.
- As I have said on the Talk page, the only currently available alternative appears to be to bring back the "pedophilia and child sexual abuse" title; but that choice can be expected to trigger renewed endless debate over which books can reasonably be put on the list. A consensus title is probably going to have to be one that few of us really love but most of us can agree is acceptable. SocJan (talk) 22:58, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
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- [Response to your message on my Talk page:] As attractive as "minor" at first seemed, the Wikipedia definition of the legal term "minor" proves too broad for our purposes. Have a look at Minor_(law). Here are two quotations from that entry:
- "In law, the term minor (also infant or infancy) is used to refer to a person who is under the age in which one legally assumes adulthood and is legally granted rights afforded to adults in society. Depending on the jurisdiction and application, this age may vary, but is usually marked at either 18 or 21."
- "The age of consent for sexual activity is often lower than the age of majority, frequently using a graduated scale based on the difference in age between the participants. There is an absolute minimum age, however, varying from state to state, below which a minor may not consent. The lowest age for a legal marriage also varies by state."
- Few people would consider 18- to 21-year-olds to be appropriate subjects of the article, since late adolescents are commonly thought able to consent to sexual interest from an older person (and, indeed, in many States individuals even younger than 18 are legally entitled to marry without parental permission).
- "Children", despite its problems, continues to appear to me to be the best choice. An introduction to the article could quote the Wikipedia definition of "child" and thus clarify the age range covered by the article. SocJan (talk) 07:52, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
- [Response to your message on my Talk page:] As attractive as "minor" at first seemed, the Wikipedia definition of the legal term "minor" proves too broad for our purposes. Have a look at Minor_(law). Here are two quotations from that entry:
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[edit] Babur
Do you watch the article Babur? Would his relationship be classified as "historic pederastic couple"? Or was he "bisexual"? I'd value your input. Thanks! -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 15:35, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Erastes - Eromenoi
I am curious to know why you decided to delete the GLBT templates from the erastes / eromenosn articles. Haiduc (talk) 01:39, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
- Because these articles are about the ancient greek pederasty which used to take place and have no relation with the modern meaning nor with the rights of gay or anything else. Also ancient greeks were not transgender or transexual the way it is refered and at last the template itself has no referance to the ancient greek pederasty - it is simply irrelevant. Dimboukas (talk) 10:31, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Image:Masturbating satyr, amasis painter.JPG listed for deletion
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:Masturbating satyr, amasis painter.JPG, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Aleta Sing 04:07, 13 March 2008 (UTC) (I don't have anything to do with this deletion request. I'm just letting you know, in case you didn't already.) --Aleta Sing 04:07, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Light-years beyond the mortals' grasp
Hi Haiduc. Before he betrayed us with 2010: Odyssey Two for money, Arthur C. Clarke used to be my idol. I even corresponded to him in the 1990s. Now that he is dead, his ex lovers might start to speak out. Be patient. If the ephebophile claims are true, my educated guess is that sources will be forthcoming in the near future. Clarke was a far way beyond mankind's grasp in many ways. Maybe that's why the Clarkives are to be published in 50 years... Cesar Tort 21:24, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] AfD nomination of Pederastic filmography
Hi Haiduc
An article that you have been involved in editing, Pederastic filmography, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pedrastic filmography. Thank you.
I hope you agree on this.Tony (talk) 22:57, 27 March 2008 (UTC)Tony
Haiduc: I have read the AfD discussion. I can't see any way to contribute to it. I should have looked more deeply into this subject before chiming in on the Talk page of the article itself. My "chime", fortunately, was not in the "right" place (the AfD discussion) to make much difference and anyway I have deleted it. (I can't really see that I did any great harm. Am a little puzzled by the tone of your message on my page.) Still -- I'm sorry; my apologies. SocJan (talk) 19:32, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] AfD discussion
I looked at the AfD discussion and there seems to be no consensus. I will not be able to contribute to it, as I have no opinion of whether or not to keep. Sorry to see that you and the german lady disagree. Understand though that the german wikipedia and the english are quite different when it comes to standards on what constitutes an article. Overly specific lists or inconsise titles would probably not be accepted. It could be that she is reacting based on what she knows about the conventions there.- Gilliam (talk) 23:49, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Relevant AN/I
An Incident report pertaining to you and PetraSchelm has been filed at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Persistent, serious personal attacks by User:PetraSchelm --AnotherSolipsist (talk) 22:19, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Staphylus
I saw your edit here to Staphylus, you listed the reference for your addition as the Suda could you te;; me how you obtained this information from this reference? A quick search on line failed to confirm the assertion of Staphylus as the eromenos of Dionysus. In fact most references place the relationship between these two as father and son, not as lovers. Jeepday (talk) 03:36, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Bacchá
With respect to Bacchá, you were absolutely right. My "hot cat" finger got a little too hot, and I definitely wouldn't have made the second edit had I realised yours had intervened. Sorry for my flippancy in responding on my talk page. Thanks, Good Ol’factory (talk) 23:06, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} template.
[edit] A question several decades old
I just wrote a brief addition to our discussion. However, since I had my mind on anthropology, I remember quite some time ago an old friend of mine from the Anthropology Department of a school on the West Coast mentioned to me a very interesting tribal culture. The name of this indigenous people quite eludes me and has for some time, but I've always had an interest in finding out more about them. Would you happen to have any knowledge of pederastic relationships in indigenous cutlures? TheGreenSerene (talk) 02:48, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Thank you very much for the very informative article. It is just what I am looking for and solves a question that has been lingering with me for quite some time. I am very grateful. Incidentally I've met Bruce Rind a couple times over the years. He always does interesting if sometimes controversial work. Unfortunately my reasons for the exclusion of Verne will have to wait for another time but I've added a brief comment to our main discussion.TheGreenSerene (talk) 21:25, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] "Vandalism"
The term "vandalism" shouldn't be applied lightly, per Wikipedia:Vandalism#What_vandalism_is_not. Accusing Petra of it is just ammunition in her bandolier. --AnotherSolipsist (talk) 03:15, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
- And thus the prophecy was fulfilled. --AnotherSolipsist (talk) 03:46, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Unacceptable comments
The comments you made to Petra, I quote " While you are welcome to be whatever you are, I based my opinion about your probable gender on the pugnacious tone of your dialogue and your interest in articles dealing with male homosexuality. Such qualities do not a feminine countenance evoke, at least not in my mind" is completely unacceptable as you well know, having been here at wikipedia now for many years. I knowm you have done some good editing but continue on in this vain and I will be forced tot ake this gropos incivility further. Thanks, SqueakBox 17:26, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
- I do not know what you are talking about but do hope you follow your own advice and refrain from attacking others in such a horrible way in the future, that is all. Thanks, SqueakBox 18:43, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Keep your deranged harassment off my talkpage
Rind is famous for announcing that "Adult-child" sex is the "neutral terminology" that should be used instead of CSA if children report "no harm." But that is beside that point that you have absolutely no business posting any ridiculous "warnings" on my talkpage. Consider youself lucky that we just laughed at your pathetic display of pique yesterday instead of adding it to AN/I report (but the diff has been saved for the user conduct RfC against you that is probably inevitable). Thanks for understanding! Cheers,-PetraSchelm (talk) 00:55, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] PetraSchelm
I think that she misunderstood your response to me, after you misunderstood it as a response to you:
J-Lambton T/C 22:59, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
- No, you clearly misunderstood that, to his credit, he wants no part of your trollery, because he's a grown-up. -PetraSchelm (talk) 23:10, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
