Talk:Hagar (Bible)
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This entry is a mess and needs to be cleaned up by someone who is capable of writing an encyclopedia article, please.
Can we say that the text 'avoids praise' of the marriage? Isn't that projecting an unproven intention onto the text. Wouldn't simply saying that it doesn't praise the marriage make more sense?
- Agreed. Now changed. ntennis 08:50, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] Image
This Gutenberg text has a picture we may be able to use. Someone else can get it if I forget in the future. gren グレン 14:32, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Hagar(In Arabic litrature)
There is a misconception in this text. In the heading "Hagar in Islamic traditions"...the text narrates...Hagar bought an Egyptian wife for Ishmael and Arabs are their descendants....
First: I am not sure that Ishmael married an Egyptian woman. May be he had done that but there is no reference to that in Arabic literature...probably he may have married more than one wife; some of them were from the Arabic tribes that settled in the place including Jorham.
second (and I am sure of that): Arabs existed long before Ishmael...they originated mainly from the old kingdom of Sheba (the lands of present day Yemen and Oman) and other older nations who had a kingdom called "Ad"...their tribes used to navigate surrounding lands in nomadic activities and it was the tribe of "Jorham" that first located and settled around Hagar and her son. Ishmael as "the son of Abraham" was from Canaan, however through mixed breed with Arab tribes he established a new breed called "The Arabized Arabs" who are different than those of the called "The Arabian Arabs".
[edit] Renaming
I believe this article should be renamed to indicate that Hagar is as much a part of Qur'anic heritage is she is Biblical. Therefore, I propose Hagar (Bible, Qur'an) or something similar.--AladdinSE 20:19, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
- How about Hagar (Abrahamic religions)? Yes, you're right, it needs to be renamed, and have three sections on Hagar as seen by Jews, Christians, and Muslims. I think the procedure is to put up a template suggesting a move and wait for comments before moving. Zora 20:22, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
Abrahamic Faiths, or Religions, work for me.--AladdinSE 07:33, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
That sounds fine, but could someone please clarify her status in Abraham's family. I believe that many Muslims consider her to be his wife (not sure if the Quran supports that or not) while Jews (and Christians?) consider her to have been only a handmaiden (who was asked to carry Abraham's child). But I am obviously not very sure of myself and it would really help if someone could find that out. 198.111.183.2 21:39, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Well, lets be realistic here. Just how many Hagars are there? Why not just title the page Hagar? Regards, David Lauder 21:59, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Hagar in Islam
I can't really remember whether Hagar or Hajar is considered to be a maidservant or wife to Abraham but I guess it a little bit of both. A maidservant or "lesser" wife or concubine.Anyway, In Islam, Hagar is believed to be an Egyptian Princess given by the Pharaoh as a maidservant to Abraham. Some Jewish scholars, as this link, just to name one(http://www.torah.org/learning/rabbis-notebook/5762/vayera.html) suggests, also believe that Hagar was a Princess given to Abraham by the Pharaoh. 210.19.57.10 07:55, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Inhumane Treatment
" Later struggles may have projected the (pre-exilic) troubles with the Arab nomads to the time of Abraham and his sons. Ammon, Esau, Moab, and Canaan are just few examples when later issues gave birth to supposedly old stories."
This statement assumes that the older stories are not what they claim to be. You might claim for example that the Crusades were an old story created to explain today's tensions. I think the text merits acknowledgement of that is true except where it is proven untrue.
[edit] Hagar's father?
Was Hagar the daughter of the Pharaoh that Abraham and Sarah first visited in Egypt? The page on Sarah says "Pharaoh ... sent his own daughter, Hagar, to be a handmaid to Sarai." If this is the case, shouldn't this be mentioned on the main Hagar page? I'm no theologian, just reading here and there and came across this discrepancy. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.43.243.178 (talk) 11:55, 4 April 2007 (UTC).
[edit] Hagar in Arab origins, Islam and Hajj
This article is titled "Hagar (bible)". The title implies that it is talking of the Judeo-Christian Hagar. However, the article contains a section on the Islamic perspectives on Hagar. Thus a better title would be "Hagar (religion)". Or we could split off the Islamic perspectives to a seperate article.Vice regent 16:56, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
- How about Hagar (scripture)? Or would that be taken to mean Judaism? Islam aside, I can't see why this article iis called Hagar (Bible) rather than Hagar (Torah).Proabivouac 04:25, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
[edit] HAGAR AND LAHI RU'I
If the Old Testament is the base for historical events, then Arabia is the bedrock of history and Abraham is the father of this history. Abraham established History in his moves and migration from Nejd to Hidjaz. The city of Ryadh is founded on the remains of the ancient city of Hagar, once a rich agricultural capital. That is where Hagar found her famous "well" Al-Hayir, wrongly pronounced and written in Modern Hebrew as being the Well of Lahi-Ru'i. The current interpretation of this name Lahi-Ru'i is that Hagar called it this way because she saw in her dream (vision) a sign of life. If we think it over we find that there is no relation between the vision and the life, but the Hayir fountains south of Hagar (the actual Riyadh in Nejd). Or perhaps the name Hayir as the name of the fountains 12 km south of Riyadh comes from the old Arabic meaning the vision and the life. However, the story seems to be a famous epic of the old tribes of Arabia, who carried the Abrahamic tradition from Nejd to Hidjaz where it got established in the new country of Abraham. That is what explains why the "final" story found grounds in the area which was going to be named Bethel (Later named Makkah because of the Grand Rabbi Micah). Bethel means the House of God because Abraham built an Altar for the supreme God over there. According to the Arabian tradition Abraham built the Altar with the Help of Ismael his son which means the entire Hagar tribe migrated with him to this new country. Abraham had to leave Hagar and her son in that area and migrate south on the Road of Shor (Jabal Thawr south of Mecca), otherwise why should Hagar "run" between the Safat and the Marwah if Abraham stayed with them? Again I propose that the term Lahi Ru'i be read in Arabic: Al-Hayir. Noureddine 11:39, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
