Talk:Guatemala

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Guatemala article.
Article policies
Guatemala is included in the 2007 Wikipedia for Schools, or is a candidate for inclusion in future versions. Please maintain high quality standards, and make an extra effort to include free images, because non-free images cannot be used on the CDs.
SICA ZP
Latin America Portal
This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Central America, which collaborates on articles related to Central America. To participate, you can edit this article or visit the project page for more details.
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale.
Top This article has been rated as top-importance on the importance scale.
Peer review This Geography article has been selected for Version 0.5 and subsequent release versions of Wikipedia. It has been rated B-Class on the assessment scale (comments).

Contents

[edit] Sources?

The Guatemala page is seriously lacking in citations. This page needs sources identified to ensure its accuracy.

I understand the requirement. However, for Guatemala, as for a lot of latin american countries, there is not much information online, besides very general info like population, area, etc. This is a by-product of the lack of technology and investment by the governments and institutions in putting more information online. Of course, this also applies to a big part of latin american and african countries (basically, third-world). In the future, this will probably be better, but for now, the Wikipedia is probably one of the most authorative websites on the subject. mjuarez 07:20, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
You may naturally also site books. There are definitely enough books in print to source and in many of the cases citing something like the historical section of a travel guide book would likely be enough. Scott.wheeler 23:45, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Re: mjuarez--that's unfortunate, but it means that the info on such countries would have to be limited. A lack of sources doesn't justify unsourced info. MrVibrating (talk) 21:49, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Quiché

I don't know, but the link from Quiche goes to quiche which has nothing to do with the province of Quiche meant in the text!

Thanks for pointing that out. Sometimes an accent mark makes a LOT of difference! Changed to "Quiché". Cheers, -- Infrogmation 13:23, 2 Nov 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Anon comment with homework due

I've never used this site, but I'm wondering why this page is offered in a trillion languages EXCEPT the most obvious one? Why is there no Spanish translation? It would really help for my project due tomorrow :)

The link to the Español version works fine. -- Infrogmation 15:54, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 54 coup

No mention of the '54 demolition of its democracy? Communism isn't democratic.--70.189.32.215 02:42, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

You didn't bother to look at History of Guatemala, eh?
Funny, when I see a "History" on the main page, I expect to find the history there ... in particular that if, say, I search for "54" and miss it, that there's nothing about it. Why not have the history of Guatemala all on one freaking page?
"Guatemala" is meant to be an overview of the country, not an in-depth analysis of all aspects. Individual pages like History of Guatemala and Geography of Guatemala go into greater depth on their respective topics. If there are individual events or periods in Guatemalan history that warrant even more detail, they will have their own articles.
If we tried to include everything about Guatemala in the "Guatemala" article, it would be far too long and detailed to be useful. (For an example of a page where too much historical detail is presented on the country page, see Germany.) It's a tough call to decide which facts, dates, and events should be included in the summary. If you think that 1954 is important enough to be mentioned in the historical summary, you can always add a short sentence about it. —Bkell 09:30, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I agree with Bkell, --SqueakBox 17:03, Apr 4, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Mormon fantasyland in Guatemala??

Why is it of any interest to anyone that some crank reliigion locates one of its fantasylands in Guatemala? I am referring to the paragraph under "Geography" that mentions the land of Lehi-Nephi or whatever. This has absolutely nothing to do with Guatemala.

Removed text moved below. Possibly it could go in as a point in some future detailed article about tourism in Guatemala.

"In Mormon culture, Guatemala is the most popular traditional location of the Book of Mormon land of Lehi-Nephi, though this is not official doctrine of the LDS Church. The popular LDS tourism service, Israel Revealed, has package tours that include various spots in Guatemala."

It is not for you to judge whether a religion is a "crank religion", or whether its sacred lands are "fantasylands". This is a real religious and cultural tradition and it pertains to Guatemala's geography. If geography is the wrong section, then move it to another. Either way, it must remain. When you remove content citing "crank" and "fantasyland", then I call that vandalism, and anyone else would agree. - Gilgamesh 03:43, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

As a non-Christian and student of Mayan art and society the Mormon connection is very important and very interesting.

JPZuniga I agree that the Mormon reference does not make any sense. This is not Guatemala Culture, it is Mormon Culture. I have visit Guatemala, and they are more into catholic culture, for example, tha Easter Celebration is a huge deal there, with big processions and arts on the streets. Besides the Curch still strong there and the catholics have a Guatemalan Saint, the Brother Peter, who was the first saint in Central America. The Mormo reference is just an idea from some people who believe in that, it should go to an article about Mormon Culture, or Mormon American Judaism, or something like it.

mcg I also agree that this Morman reference has no place being here. It has nothing to do with Guatemalan Culture. The Israel Revealed reference smacks of an advertisement as well.

[edit] Map

See Talk:Geography of Guatemala

Map of Guatemala
Map of Guatemala
Map of Guatemala showing departments
Map of Guatemala showing departments


Map

What do people think? would like to see a different map at Geography of Guatemala from the one we have here, --SqueakBox 23:04, Apr 1, 2005 (UTC) Haha..."crank religion." Having spent some time in Guatemala and in Belize, I can say first hand that understanding the influence of the Mennonites and the Mormons is quite significant in understanding the culture of the country.

I lived in Guatemala for 8 1/2 years and during that time, being in and around the culture and studying about it, I have not heard of much influence from the Mormon Church. Statistically, Catholisism and Christianity traditional mayan religious God's, (The God of the Son, The God of Corn), are most prominent religiously. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Maxxemous (talk • contribs) 07:43, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vandal info

The following is, I think, of interest, so I post it here, --SqueakBox 17:01, Apr 4, 2005 (UTC)

I deleted the text below. None of what you posted was in any way related to the vandalization. It was a political article without any relevance to this discussion.

[edit] Wikipedia:Caribbean Wikipedians' notice board

I would like to announce the establishment of the Wikipedia:Caribbean Wikipedians' notice board. Anyone with an interest in the Caribbean is welcome to join in. Guettarda 1 July 2005 04:02 (UTC)

[edit] End of Political violence in Guatemala

Political Violence is alive and well in Guatemala. See for example the Amnesty International report from November 6 2003. It is true that the peak of violence was reached in 1983 but it wasn't until Bill Clinton cut off financial support to the Guatemalan Government in 1994 that the Governmant began to make real efforts to reduce violence against opposition political activists. Having just spent 2 months there this spring I would say that a resumption of hostilities is not imminent but a great deal of anger and suffering lingers and the peace is not stable or certain.

[edit] Dept or dept

I propose to change the names from say Totonicapán Department to Totonicapán department, SqueakBox 15:55, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

please see Talk:Departments of Guatemala Tobias Conradi (Talk) 16:17, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

Yes, Squeakbox; I invite you to make a statement there in favor of why we should use department instead of Department. Having more real-world examples will only help. --Golbez 18:48, July 31, 2005 (UTC)
Capitalization should only be used for proper names. Totonicapán, the name of a place, falls under this category. Department, which is just a generic identifier (like table or airplane) should not be capitalized. mjuarez 07:15, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Demographics

Someone keeps changin demographics for Guatemala. The percentage is that Mestizos and whites make up 59% of Guatemala. In reality whites represent less than 2% of Guatemalans. This is incorrect. Someone please do your homework before posting information. This is a encyclopedia anyone can edit, but make sure your information is accurate.

[edit] Culture

The culture section of this article is weak. Guatemalan culture is similar to the culture of other Latin American countries. "Much of the clothing and food is still made in the traditional Maya way." Not true. Perhaps in scattered rural areas, but the vast majority of people in Guatemala dress in the manner of Europeans and North Americans, and they buy their clothes in clothing stores. "Food is still made in the traditional Mayan way". Meaning what, exactly? Most Guatemalans shop for their food in markets or supermarkets, and cook it up on electric stoves.

You are, of course, totally right, and it sdounds like the article is being very patronising. Feel free to change it, or I weill have a go when I have some time, SqueakBox 20:12, 4 October 2005 (UTC)


I was checking out the BBC and I have not found any reference to support the claim that 'The abundance of sites has led the BBC to name Guatemala as the first cultural destination in the world'. There are some fairly positive quotations concerning Guatemala on this page though: Guatemala BBC . I would suggest that this reference be removed unless or until it can be substantiated. Markleci 12:22, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Religion

The leader of Guatemnalan Catholic Church has changed to "Mons. Álvaro Leonel Ramazzini Imeri" since January 2006.

User: Cuete Date: 23/02/2006

The following paragraph was removed for lacking propper references: "In connection with the country's dominant Roman Catholic faith, the patron Saints of Guatemala are Our Lady of the Rosary and St. James the Greater."

Those aren't patron Saints of Guatemala.

Cuete 08:09, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Guatemala Portal

Please help expanding the Portal.

Thanks

--alfiboy 19:53, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] War Heroes

I consider that the following paragraph in the History section should be removed:

"The Guatemalan army had many heros. Some stand ouut include Ramon Martinez and Jose Gracia Padilla of Guatemala City. Another Decorated war hero is Juan Garcia Fabian. With a backround in Huehuetenango he helped the Guatemalan Army defeat the marxist guerillas. He is a true hero in the eyes of all Guatemalans. The army could not defeat the URNG that had access to more sophisticated weapons."

It does not have any reliable source.

[edit] Catholic Leader

The following paragraph in the Religion section:

"The current Roman-Catholic leader of Guatemala, Rodolfo Cardinal Quezada Toruño, is the archbishop of Guatemala City and a cardinal of the Roman Catholic Church."

Should change to: "The current Roman-Catholic leader of Guatemala is Mons. Álvaro Leonel Ramazzini Imeri"


Mons. Álvaro Leonel Ramazzini Imeri was elected as president of the "conferencia episcopal de Guatemala" on January 23 2006, for the period 2006-2008, and he is the actual cathilic church leader.

Ref. [1]


Please don't change it back without propper references.

Cuete 08:06, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Most Modern City?

"The capital city remained Guatemala City which is still today the biggest and most modern city in Central America." Are there any sources to support that it is more modern than Panana City, San Salvador, or San Jose.

It's defenitely more modern than San Salvador, San José, etc. But Panama City may be the most modern due to their skyline, but I'm not sure.

Gtrojan 19:28, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

This is a subjective issue. How do we actually measure "modern"? By number of buildings? By kilometers of paved roads? "Biggest" could be justified based on city population or area, but "modern" is too subjective. Should be removed. mjuarez 07:17, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] National Anthem

The name of the national Anthem is not Guatemala Feliz. The anthem has no name and is known only as National Anthem of Guatemala. A change of name along with a different rhythm for the anthem was proposed in 1996, but it was rejected.

[edit] Motto

Is anyone able to provide a reference showing that El País de la Eterna Primavera really is the official motto? A Google search [2] hardly yields any results. Could it ust be a catchphrase to describe the country to foreigners? Pruneautalk 18:22, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Try this: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22land+of+eternal+spring%22&btnG=Search - 24,700 results;
or this: (Spanish) http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22pais+de+la+eterna+primavera%22&btnG=Search - 25,500 results. --ChaChaFut 02:29, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Those links only show that the phrase is used, they do not prove that it is the motto. Actually, if you add the word motto or lema, the number of results falls down to 55 and 42. Furthermore, the number of hits on Google is by no means a reliable source. I was actually looking for a government page talking about the motto, or perhaps a coin or note with the motto on it, for example, but I haven't found anything. Pruneautalk 17:50, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


"Pais de la eterna primavera" (The ever lasting spring country) motto is very popular amongst Guatemalans, not so sure in other places. I googled it in spanish an there's more than 21,000 results for it I think this should give some credibility to it.

But, the official motto used to promote Guatemala internationally, by the Guatemalan Turism Institute (INGUAT) is "Guatemala, soul of the earth".

I'd like to know what's the connotation of the motto required in this field. If it refers the motto used by Guatemalan people should be "Guatemala, the eternal spring country", but if it refers to internaltional promotion (marketing) should be "Guatemala, soul of the earth".

Cuete 05:25, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

"Guatemala, Alma de la Tierra" WTF is that?!! no one ever uses that in Guatemala, and it sounds stupid too. INGUAT uses the "Guatemala, soul of the earth" for English ONLY. Gtrojan 00:57, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm not convinced that the motto of the tourism bureau is the same as the national motto. The fact that they want the world to know the country as "the soul of the world" looks like advertising, not an official motto. I can't get a clear answer on the official motto. Some sites say there is none [1], some say it's "Land of the Eternal Spring" [2], and a number say that it's "Libertad!"/"Freedom!" [3] [4] [5] Maybe this is just a mistake made because "Libertad" is on the flag? If so, it's a very common mistake. I'm starting to think that there is no official motto, just several commonly used ones. Feeeshboy 07:45, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Considerable Vandalism

There's a considerable amount of offensive vandalism to this page and it looks as though much of the actual content has been damaged. I'm not familiar enough with Wikipedia to make changes to the main page myself, but someone should seriously look into restoring a previous version of the page.

Thanks,

Yes, doing so, and blocking some of the worst vandals. -- Infrogmation 15:40, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I'll keep an eye on it, SqueakBox 18:05, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I requested page protection like 2 months ago, But I was rejected. Gtrojan 03:58, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Page protection wont solve a problem like this but it will stop genuine editors. We just need to watch it better, which I for one will be doing, SqueakBox 04:52, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] united fruit company

there is no mention of the united fruit company in this article, though there is a a fair amount of reference to the CIA. it seems pertinent to mention their (united fruit co.) part in the US sponsored atrocities. also, i believe che guevara was originally from guatemala? well, hopefully somebody more learned than i in central american politics and history could might have a bit to say 'bout this- thanks, don't remember my account name

Che Guevara Guatemalan? He was Argentinian. If we say United Fruit were behindany atrocities we need impeccable references in order not to libel the company, SqueakBox 00:12, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

For the record though, Che and Castro were in Guatemala prior to the US / United Fruit Company backed millitary coup which overthrew the left-leaning democratically elected government. This is coming from Jon Lee Anderson's bio of Che, but it's been a few years since I read it. Since that's a reasonable source (more or less politically neutral) I'll dig out the book soon and cite the appropriate pages. Scott.wheeler 15:26, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Map

What's with this Image:LocationGuatemala.png map? The top-left (northwestern) corner of the Guatemala I know is decidedly pointier than that. --Homunq 18:26, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Indeed you are right but I have no idea how to go about changing that, other than downloading the map and changing it with an application on your own computer. it certainly should be fixed, SqueakBox 19:28, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jewish Community

"There are also small but powerful Jewish community"

I know someone will probably accuse me of being oversensitive, but what does this mean exactly? 129.67.43.240 14:29, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

My guess is there arent many of them but they have lots of money, SqueakBox 14:43, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Also several politicians are Jewish. Gtrojan 19:46, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Independence day

Why does the independence day for Guatemala (and all Central America) is 15 september 1821? Central America was part of the New Spain and then part of the First Mexican Empire until it seceeded in 1823. Shouldn't the independence date be 1823 and from Mexico? Or in any case, shouldn't indepence be set until after the dissolution of the United Provinces of Central America, since Guatemala wasn't an independent country until then? --Alonso 19:31, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] References

We need references in this article please update and cited otherwise it will be disputed. alfiboy 19:28, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed WikiProject

In my ongoing efforts to try to include every country on the planet included in the scope of a WikiProject, I have proposed a new project on Central America at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Central America whose scope would include Guatemala. Any interested parties are more than welcome to add their names there, so we can see if there is enough interest to start such a project. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 17:05, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article in need of major revision

The article has undergone serious change since Authenticmaya began editing, mostly for the good, but some, unfortunately not so. The introductory part is too short, and the start of the history section is way too long. The entire article needs cleanup for grammar, spelling, and POV check. Someone with more time than I have right now should check against older versions to see if anything valuable has been lost. I also agree that the article is in major need of proper sourcing throughout. Perhaps we could come up with a core set of texts that we agree to use as the base of our work. I'll try to start a proper list soon.Notmyrealname 01:21, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm starting grammar/flow revisions, although it occurs to me that before I put any more effort into this, we should really rethink how much length is worth devoting to the history (there's WAY too much right now). Interestingly, very little of the Pre-Columbian stuff is mentioned in History of Guatemala, so a lot of this content could be transferred there. I've also noticed that a lot of this history text was copied and pasted from this website: http://www.authenticmaya.com/authentic_maya.htm
Feeeshboy 06:48, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What's Going on With Guatemalan Facts?

I understand that there is little out there that can truly be cited as a source for information on Guatemala. Most of it deals with Demographics. Even the CIA website changes its facts. It seems as though many places online and many books have conflicting statistics for the population of Guatemala, though most seem equally legitimate as the previous one. I've read that the Indigenous population is 60% with Mestizos at around 30%, whites at 10%. Othe places state that the Indigenous population is 40%, with Mestizos at 55%, blacks at 4% and whites and others at 1%. Some places don't even mention a black population while others do, some places place the Asian population at 3% while others make no mention of it. It all changes. How are the demographics measured? As a Guatemalan, I grew up understanding that Ladino meant "non-Indigenous" to pretty much include all mestizos, whites, asians, blacks, etc., as well as Mayan indians who have adopted a Westernized lifestyle. That's the definition most Guatemalans I know give for Ladino. So why do so many websites claim "ladino" as only being Mestizos? I don't know how Guatemala measures its demographics? Are the Garifuna considered Indigenous Guatemalans? Some websites say yes. It's all confusing. If anyone could clear it up for me that'd be great. Also, what is up with the statistics for Guatemlans living outside the US? That also confuses me. Some websites used on other entries claim that there are around 350,000 Guatemlan citizens registered in the USA with about 200,000 estimated illegal while other places claim that there are 1.1 million Guatemalans citizens int he USA. Did the civil war claim 100,000 lives or 200,000 lives? Does Mexico have 10,000 Guatemalan citizens or 75,000 as other sources claim. It's confusing. I jusst want some clarification. Until there is any, I think the Guatemala entry and other entries for Latin American countries will always have uncited sources. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Saopabs83 (talk • contribs) 08:18, 18 February 2007 (UTC).

Also the statement about Guatemala being the most populous country in central america is wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.206.16.35 (talk) 18:23, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] History

Can anyone fill in anything about the history of Guatemala between independence and 1945? That seems like a pretty glaring gap, and I don't even know how to begin editing the modern history section without understanding the historical context. Feeeshboy 06:43, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Guatemala is the largest nation in Central America? according to who or what document?

This is false, it is common knowledge that NICARAGUA is the largest country in the isthmus, followed by HONDURAS and only then GUATEMALA. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 142.245.59.3 (talk) 22:13, 5 March 2007 (UTC).


actually Guatemala is the largest by population where as by size it falls in third place, revise your information, ignoramous.

[edit] Easier citations

I think that the entire article should have one citation.

[edit] US support

Did the US support to the Guatemalan government cease with the Carter administration as suggested in this article article or did it continue as suggested in Foreign Interventions of the Reagan Administration?Vints 07:51, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

The US Congress put restrictions on the type of aid that could be sent to Guatemala, however money, training, and other aid did continue. As part of the investigation into the cover up of Efrain Bamaca (the husband of a US human rights lawyer), it was revealed that military aid continued to flow (usually via the CIA) through the 1990s, despite the Congressional bans. This is the quick answer. I'll try to properly source this soon. Notmyrealname 04:27, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I shall request more information on the CIA/United Fruit takedown of the government, please... That's one of the most important things in the history of the country, and it warranted about a sentence. AlexRochon 21:03, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Latin cultures

Hello everyone! You may want to go to Latin cultures an participate in the article and discussion. There are a lot of disputed statements... The Ogre 12:36, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism Again

C'mon , at least partial lock, almost 2 minutes i saw another vandalism.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tian2992 (talk • contribs) 20:55, August 23, 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Education

"The government runs a number of public elementary and secondary-level schoolsand alow the children to yell and scream and do whatever they want to."

This is the first sentence in the Education Section. The highlighted part of the sentence is not a verifiable fact and should not be included in the article. I am not familiar with editing pages and would therefore appreciate someone correcting this. Thank you.

67.93.212.43 19:39, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Climate

Any ideas for a climate / weather section? Seems like it should at least be mentioned. User:Hopping T 00:04, 2 December 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Flora & Fauna

I would like help starting, editing and completing the List of Guatemalan Flora and List of Guatemalan Fauna pages. I think they would be good and useful additions. Once I can gather more reference tools I plan on adding a great deal to them. Any and all help would be appreciated. IvanTortuga (talk) 18:41, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Guatemala not part of Yucatán?

User:Zinco335 has changed Colonial Guatemala to being governed from Yucatán. I don't recall ever hearing it that way. References, other comments? Curious, -- Infrogmation (talk) 03:33, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Possble vandalism

The History section consists only of one subsection, Pre-Columbian. The rest of the history of Guatemala is in a section called ==To Bad. This makes no sense to me. Is it vandalism? Ought we to change it? Smartguy777 (talk) 05:20, 12 March 2008 (UTC).

[edit] Crime??

I saw an interesting (although, grossly disturbing) documentary last night on the Documentary Channel about violent crimes committed against women in Guatemala. Very sad issues.....very serious! Maybe this article needs a "crimes" section. Buddpaul (talk) 17:27, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Name

I am interested in the origin and meaning of the name "Guatemala", but could not find it in the article. Anyone? Muad (talk) 09:26, 3 April 2008 (UTC)


Its an aztec name "Goathemalan", it means Land of Forrest. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.106.167.230 (talk) 23:49, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

The article should make mention of the origin of the name. This claims it was named after Gautama Buddha in the 6th century, by a Chinese explorer Hui Shen. But I suspect that's rubbish. -- JackofOz (talk) 08:46, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Headline text

THE PLACE OF GUATEMALA

--99.194.70.88 (talk) 22:03, 21 April 2008 (UTC)--99.194.70.88 (talk) 22:03, 21 April 2008 (UTC)The reason I chosen guatemala is becausse I think that I shoud get inrolve with other places .Not just in NEW YORK I would love to go to guatemala some day in or on a vaction.

[edit] Report but need a wee bit more info

I woud want from reports on states countrys you name it all more info on stuff like average temps,exports,imports,persentage wheels ect..... also I would put that info on other pages so we can make wikipedia more report friendly.

GO WIKIPEDIA!!!:):):):)--Mbratek4014 (talk) 23:29, 20 May 2008 (UTC)