Talk:Great Seal of Ohio

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[edit] Higher-quality version

For anyone interested, there's an updated rendition of the Great Seal at [1], as shown at the Ohio Department of Transportation's website [2]. (There's also a cruder version here.) Having grown up in Ohio, I've seen this version, with the Scioto River flowing across the center of the design, a lot more often. It also states that the words "The Great Seal of the State of Ohio" has to be in "news gothic". (Previous designs were in a serif typeface.) In fact, this is the version that is featured on any Ohio state agency's website, for example on the state's front page [3]. The Ohio Historical Society also agrees [4].

So, although the image featured in article is quite beautiful, it's not accurate, and should be replaced with either [5] or something similar.

 – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 03:56, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Respectfully, I disagree about the image's accuracy. As is stated in the article, Ohio's legislature has defined Ohio's Great Seal in the Ohio Revised Code, chapter 5, section 10. This article's current image matches the image included in that section, and therefore it is accurate (if the online ORC's version is accurate).

It is interesting that the images you have found at the DoT, state, and OHS websites are different, but they do appear to "correspond substantially" to the legislature's design, so the perpetrators are unlikely to be found guilty of section 99: "Whoever violates section 5.10 of the Revised Code shall be fined not more than five hundred dollars, or imprisoned not more than thirty days, or both." JonathanFreed 17:16, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

I've seen the image that's attached to the statute in at Anderson's Online Docs, but my guess is that they don't update the attachments as often as they update the text. A tell-tale sign that the image there is an older version is its use of a serif typeface for the words surrounding the seal; the statute says that it must be in "news gothic" – sans-serif, that is. It also requires three-quarters of a sun rising in the background, which I don't see in the version here. I guess "corresponding substantially" is a bit subjective, but the placement of the seal's elements that I'm arguing for has been standard for a long time, and the first time I noticed this image, I was a bit surprised that it looked so different (albeit quite beautiful).

I don't think that Anderson's is guilty of anything; it's probably just an outdated version, as opposed to taking liberties with the statute. It's important to note that Anderson's is not a state agency; it's simply a division of LexisNexis that hosts copies of state legislation, and it's entirely possible that that's where Encarta got the design for the seal as well. [6] Please note the consistency with which the state government uses the design I'm arguing for, since all state agencies, all the way down to the Board of Optometry [7] have to use the state seal). Only local governments and the Ohio State Parks Division have copies of the other version on their sites – but the Parks Division's emblem includes the less beautiful design.

Also, when I said I grew up with the version I call "newer", I forgot to mention that my teachers had us all color the state seal from time to time when learning about the state. [8] I'll do some more research, but as far as I can tell, my arguments still stand.

 – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 19:47, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Ah, I've finally found a physical representation of the seal: [9][10]. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 20:10, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

I still respectfully disagree with Mxn, and now with Durin (see article edit history), regarding which image of the seal accurately portrays Ohio's current great seal. As I stated above, the seal is defined in O.R.C. 5.10. To my knowledge, all State of Ohio web sites refer people to the Anderson Publishing / LexisNexis web site for viewing the most up-to-date version of Ohio's Revised Code. The image of the seal on the Anderson Publishing web site at O.R.C. 5.10 corresponds to the "Seal_of_ohio.gif" image here on Wikipedia. It is not the same as images that Mxn and Durin have promoted. JonathanFreed 06:37, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

I've submitted a question through the Ohio Secretary of State's web site regarding what image is most up-to-date: the image that he uses on his web site, or the image at Anderson Publishing's Ohio Revised Code web site that he points people toward. I doubt that I will get a response, but we shall see. JonathanFreed 08:57, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

FYI, I still have not received a response. JonathanFreed 03:25, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Apparently the Secretary of State's office uses the same seal offline as it does online. [11][12] [13][14] So does the Governor's office. [15][16] [17][18] [19][20] [21][22] Additionally, various government agencies use the black-and-white version of this seal when presenting press releases from the Governor's office. [23][24][25] And one more thing: my driver's license has multiple holographs of that seal on it. (The Bureau of Motor Vehicles exclusively uses the version I've been promoting. [26][27])

That's about as official as it gets, barring a response from them.

 – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 06:36, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

An information panel in the 2007-2009 Ohio Official Transportation Map, published by ODOT, also uses the seal I was pushing for. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 19:45, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

I'll try to summarize things a bit; feel free to add to the table ("Current version" refers to Seal of ohio.png, and "Proposed version" refers to Huy hiệu Ohio.gif):

Seal usage by the Ohio State Government

Executive
Top-level office, department, board, or commission	Division, bureau, or office	Version Used
Governor		Proposed version on website, in official documents[28][29][30][31][32]
Attorney-General		Proposed version online and in publications and official documents
Auditor of State		Proposed version online and in publications
Secretary of State		Proposed version online, at press conferences, and in publications
Treasurer of State		Proposed version online (with star and state motto in banner below)
Department of Commerce		Current version online
Department of Commerce	Division of Securities	Proposed version online
Department of Commerce	Division of State Fire Marshal	Current version on the website, but proposed version in publications and legally-binding documents
Department of Natural Resources	Division of Parks and Recreation	Current version online, but proposed version for division seal
Department of Public Safety	Bureau of Motor Vehicles	Proposed version in official forms, license plates
Department of Transportation		Proposed version online and in official state highway map
Board of Deposit		Proposed version in publications
Board of Optometry		Proposed version online (with the star from a previous design, perhaps pre-1996?)
Public Utilities Commission		Proposed version in brochures, other publications, and legally-binding documents
Air Quality Development Authority		Proposed version online and in publications
Building Authority		Proposed version online
Civil Rights Commission		Proposed version online
Office of Information Technology		Proposed version online
Office of Inspector General		Current version online, but proposed version in publications
Elections Commission		Proposed version online
Naval Militia		Current version online
Pharmacy Board		Proposed version online
Board of Tax Appeals		Current version online
Department of Youth Services		Proposed version online
Utility Radiological Safety Board		Proposed version in publications
Governor's Office of Veterans' Affairs		Current version online
Public Defender's Office		Proposed version online and in publications
Personnel Board of Review		Proposed version online
Power Siting Board		Proposed version online
Military Reserve		Current version online
Hispanic/Latino Affairs Commission		Proposed version online
Accountancy Board		Proposed version online and in legally-binding documents
Judicial
Supreme Court		Proposed version online and in publications
Court of Claims		Proposed version online (with star)
Courts of Appeal		Online: proposed version (1st, 9th, 10th, 12th), both (3rd), current version (4th, 5th, 7th, 8th); behind the bench: proposed version (12th); publications: proposed version (12th)
Legislative
House of Representatives		Proposed version online
Senate		Proposed version online
(Joint)		Current version online -- looks like a stained-glass window; possibly from the rotunda's skylight, which we know features an old design
(Joint)	Committee on Agency Rule Review	Current version in publications[33]
Legislative Service Commission		Proposed version online (with star)
Legislative Service Commission	Register	Proposed version online
Non-governmental
Ohio Historical Society		Proposed version online

Also, it's worth noting that the Anderson Publishing site is no longer online and is no longer used by the Ohio government. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 05:09, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Because the Anderson site is no longer used by the Ohio government, I submit that it is time to find another source with we can determine the appropriate seal to use here.

In any case, I object to any version of the seal being called the "JonathanFreed" version. I have never made or claimed to have made or own any version. Mxn, please find a different name for that version. Thank you. JonathanFreed (talk) 05:11, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

I've relabeled it the "Current version". Sorry for associating you with that image, I just needed a short way of referring to it. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 04:01, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

U.S. Passports from a few years back were apparently issued with the version I'm proposing on page 17. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 00:34, 19 April 2008 (UTC)