Talk:Gospel Hall Brethren

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[edit] Description

And how do they differ from normal PBs?? Malick78 (talk) 17:51, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

I have no answer to this question. There was a previous article Gospel Hall, whcih was deleted and redirected to Open Brethren, but the present article Gospel Hall was then created. I raised the same query and was told that the Gospel Halls arose from a movement in Scotland, rather than from Plymouth. I do not know enough to be able to asset whether there is one movement or two. My impression is that it is one movement, though it may have more than one origin. If so, there is a lot to be said for merging the articles. However, "Plymouth Brethren" seems to cover both the Open Brethren and the Exclusive Brethren. Peterkingiron (talk) 23:57, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

This is taken from the Plymouth Brethen talk page. :-

Ive been thinking about the various streams of the Open brethren within the UK. I have only visited half a dozen though. Here is what I think is a rough classification and from what I have seen and from what I have been told by others :-

Stream 1 : Based on very early Brethren and Muller/Groves principles. United in the bonds of love and peace, with the ability to openly discuss and agree to disagree over finer points of doctrine. Very open in regards to accepting people into fellowship.

Stream 2 : Like Stream 1, but where there is disunity and heated doctrinal arguments.

Stream 3 : Take on board Exclusive doctrine. ( the founders of the Open Brethren didnt develop finer points of doctrine and were more doers than thinkers) Unity is based on adhering to the doctrine, with the abandonment of the very early Brethren principles. Individuals are unable to develop their own convictions and are brow beaten into Exclusive teaching. Stream 3 may arise as a solution to the problems in stream 2 and is brought about by strong leadership. Accepting people into fellowship is difficult in this stream. Personally, it took me 6 months to be received into fellowship. I came from a charismatic church in which I was not convinced about the goings-on in there and failed to be moulded into a charismatic. The brethren wanted to ensure that I was not going to spread bad doctrine into the assembly meeting. Stream 3 are independent churches and therefore still have the problem of ensuring people who are put out of fellowship do not slip into fellowship somewhere else. Stream 3 churches are able to morph back into stream 1 churches with a bit of help from above and thought/action from below.

Stream 4 : An Assembly with very few people in fellowship, which therefore struggles to function effectively.--Another berean (talk) 06:14, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

I thought the only split was the Needed Truth Brethren. I am curious too,I will ask around. Things are made confusing in that an assembly may name their meeting hall as "xxx Street Gospel Hall in a particular town, just to signify that the gospel is preached but has nothing to do with Gospel Hall Brethren. I know two gospel halls quite well and both dont seem to be Gospel Hall Brethren. One of these assemblies fall in stream 1, the other in stream 3 after leaving stream 2. The above 4 streams do not describe Needed Truth Brethren.

I could be wrong on these things.--Another berean (talk) 15:55, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

From what I understand the movement started in Scotland and merged with the Open Brethren as both were pretty much the same with independent , autonomous meetings, and Scottish preachers from the Gospel Hall side went to America to spread their ways of doing things. --Another berean (talk) 17:37, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

The way they differ from normal PBs is that they are not PBs at all. Although both movements began at about the same time, the people involved were different and were not connected. The Plymouth Brethren Movement included people like George Müller. The "gospel hall brethren" movement included people like Muir and Kelly. 71.10.48.39 (talk) 02:41, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

As some one who has observed Brethren from the fringes, I find this confusing. My impression was that in the UK, there was essentially one movement, which may go by different names in differnt places. However because there is so little central "denominational" organisation, I am quite prepared to beleive that the situation can exist where A is in fellowship with B and C but B and C are not in fellowship withe each other. What is needed is some one who knows all aspects and can produce an authorative account (properly referenced), or alternatively merge this article with Plymouth Brethren, but add more material on the stated alternative Scottish origin. Whatever their respective origins, if they are not functionally distinct movements today, there should be a single article. If that becomes too large (which is unlikely), articels on the two separate origins (only) could be forked into separate articles. Peterkingiron (talk) 22:59, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

There aren't many sources on the origins of the Plymouth brethren and the gospel halls, but one of the best is found in a short book written by a preacher named Norman Crawford. The text is online here: http://gospelhall.org/about-the-church/norman-crawford--gathering-unto-his-name/gathering-unto-his-name--histoy-of-assemblies.html . Alinnisawest (talk) 01:59, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Progress

This article at least seems to be beginning to explore some of the finer distinctions within the Brethren movement. I have remvoed a few red links, which look to me as if they are not needed at all or would be redirects to this article. It is undesirable to have a lot of paralell articles covering the same ground, as they are liable to develop so as to contradict each other. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:52, 23 February 2008 (UTC)