Talk:Gorm the Old
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[edit] Cleanup? Citations?
This article makes a lot of unsourced claims, some of them expressing opinions about King Gorm's rule and character.
It would be a big help to readers and other editors to source as many of these claims as possible--we shouldn't make claims about Gorm's personality directly, but should instead credit them to reasonably authoritative sources. Emk 13:33, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
- Then you should add {unsourced} template rather than {cleanup}, which is somewhat misleading. --Ghirla -трёп- 17:55, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
OK, since this article is actively watched, I'll just point stuff out here. Here are four relatively uncontroversial assertions which should nonetheless be cited under Wikipedia:Verifiability:
- Gorm was born in the late 800s, and died in 958 according to dendrochronological studies of the wood in his burial chamber.
- earlier historians often confused him with his father who supposedly withstood the coming of Christianity for as long as he lived.
- Claims that he took it by force, or that he only ruled part of the peninsula of Jutland are almost certainly erroneous…
- Gorm's great-great-grandson king Sweyn Estridsson referred to both Gorm and his father as kings of (all of) Denmark, not just parts of the country.
In particular, the dendrochronological stuff is just plain cool, and definitely worth referencing.
Two other bits are more problematic, IMO, which I why I used the "cleanup" template. These are outright expressions of opinion, which Wikipedia:NPOV generally requires to be sourced:
- Often maligned as a cruel old dotard and a staunch heathen,
- Gorm was neither old nor unwise; when correctly interpreted, early sources point to him as being open-minded and pragmatic
I'm going to add an {unsourced} template, per your recommendation. I'd fix these issues myself, but without references, I'm at a bit of a loss. :-( Thank you! emk 18:37, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
While I'm sure he wasn't old all of his life, I am equally sure that if he was born in the 800s and died in 958 he was at least 59, and thus old. Highlandlord 05:15, 27 October 2006 (UTC) Many genealogies insert another generation and list him as Gorm Frothasson son of Frotho (Frodo) Knudsson one of the disputed Kings of DENMARK and grandson of Knud I (Canute) "Hardeknut" King of DENMARK. A representative sample: http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=lorenfamily&id=I02249 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.170.88.97 (talk) 02:44, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
It is certainly worth noting that the issue of Gorm's ancestry is widely debated and far from resolved. Many believe that Hardecnute Vurm is a single individual (ie, Gorm "Hard Knott") and not father and son. An excellent reference in this regard is The Foundation for Medieval Genealogy and the page concerning DENMARK, Kings:
http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/DENMARK.htm#_Toc147312862
DeBailleul (talk) 00:43, 4 January 2008 (UTC)deBailleul I've added a section about Queen Thyra. I also added a section about the nicknames that might help. I also think the wording "ascended to the throne" needs explanation. Danish kings were elected at the regional assemblies (landsting). No one could just inherit without being supported by the majority of those at each of the assemblies. After reading the discussion I hesitate to add anything...Giljuna (talk) 21:42, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Lead
The lead fails to actually state why the subject is notable. Just states his nicknames, how nicknames were common, how long he lived etc.. Please fix. -- Anonymous DissidentTalk 06:18, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
