Talk:Go of Balhae
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I need help with the romanization. Also, if anyone wants to tackle it, there's a lot more information at http://www.unitedcn.com/03ZHMJ/14TANG/new_page_24.htm
for the Chinese-literate. Mgmei 19:29, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)
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[edit] rename to Go of Balhae?
per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Korean), how about naming this article Go of Balhae, for consistency. it's not required, & redirects will cover both, but since dae joyoung is not exactly a common household english name, might as go with the consistent naming, imho. Appleby 00:32, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] "Etymology" of Qiqi Zhongxiang and relationship with Dae Jung-sang
A korean source quotes that the Sinicized 乞乞 of the autochtone word "Qiqi" means "Great" (Hangul :대 Hanja/Hanzi :大)
한자 표시의 ‘걸걸(乞乞)’은 그 훈(訓)이 아니라, 그 발음을 봐야 한다.
(...)
대(大)[da, 돋은]= [qiqi, 치치](乞乞)= ‘첫 (솟은)’이어야 한다.
(...)
더구나 ‘걸걸(乞乞)’ 말갈족 성씨이고, ‘대(大)’는 조선족 성씨이다
Conclusion :
Qiqi Zhongxiang also know as Dae Jung-sang are both correct because the first one is the Chinese pronouciation of the word Qiqi written in the Chinese Old records in Classical Chinese while the second one prouve us that the autochtone language do not belong to Chinese language family.
Da Zhongxiang is just a sinicized word
and Geolgeol is not really considered as a Korean name.
Sources :
http://www.arirang-world.org/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t12305.html
http://www.sungyoung.net/story/daijoyoung.html
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Whlee (talk • contribs) 17:40, 3 April 2007 Whlee
[edit] "乞乞" was probably Old Korean or at least cognate with the Korean word.
The word “乞乞” may have been read either in goguryeonized reading or in Middle Chinese reading for Hanzi.
Let’s look at the Goguryeo reading for Hanzi. The personal name of the King Micheon of Goguryeo was 乙弗 (a transcription into Hanzi) or 乙弗利 (a variant transcription into Hanzi). The variation of the personal name of the Goguryeo king shows that the consonant-final sound of the character “弗” was not “T” but “L or R”. This is one of the some examples which proves that Sino-Korean reading is close to Goguryeo reading for Hanzi. For reference, “乞乞” in Sino-Korean pronunciation is [kʌlkʌl]
So, I postulate that Goguryeo reading for the character “乞” was pronounced [k+(vowel)+l]. As for the Middle Chinese reading, considering the diverse reconstructions of the reading by linguists, I postulate that the Middle Chinese pronunciation for it was [k+(vowel)+t].
And the Korean native reading for “大” is exactly [kʰɯl]. Possibly [k+(vowel)+l] or [k+(vowel)+t] was Old Korean or at least cognate with the Korean word. To the contrary, Manchu word for “大” is [amba], hardly to imagine to be cognate with above mentioned reading. After having become the royal family of Balhae, the family of Dae Jo-yeong felt the need to create a surname which could represent their dynasty diplomatically to the neighboring countries. It is easy to imagine that their native surname meaning “great” was turned into “大” which was equivalent in meaning to “乞”
It could be a good example to study how native Korean surnames have changed into Chinese-like surnames.
Jagello (talk) 09:24, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Article needs gramatical changes
It's very messy and hard to understand...someone should go over the article and correct the bad english...
[edit] Regarding the term "別種"
The term 別種, which is obsolete and also ambiguous, was used in old Chinese texts tracing the origins (族源) of foreign nations or tribes. So in order to interpret the real meaning of the term 別種, it's necessary to examine the usage of the term 別種 in other passages from the Jiutangshu (舊唐書) focusing on the ethnology.
<舊唐書>
高麗(Goguryeo)者出者夫餘(Buyeo)地別種也
日本(Japan)國者倭(wa)國之別種也
If we translate the term 別種 from its context, it should mean "an offshoot nation" having parted from the origin nation. But as for Dae Joyeong who was not a nation but the founder of Balhae, it would be better to translate the character 種 to "a stock" than a nation or a tribe. Jagello 16:01, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
