Talk:Gladiator (2000 film)

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Good article Gladiator (2000 film) has been listed as one of the Arts good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
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Contents

[edit] Archives

[edit] GA Passed

Agreement with user Sa.Vakilian; well written, broad in coverage, well cited. My main suggestion would be further referencing in the historical section. Otherwise, a definite Good article. Qjuad 15:04, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Emperor's thumb

In the Historical Deviations section, it is stated that thumbs up is the sign for death, while having the thumb in the fist was the sign for the gladiator to live. However, the gladiator page says that the thumb gestures are still debated.

Should the information here be altered to say that it is still debated, or left as is? Raistlin11325 21:40, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps another sentence can be added that it is still being debated by historians. That way readers are not believed to think that this is the only accepted thought over the hand signal used. --Nehrams2020 22:25, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Revival of Historical Epic?

Doesn't Braveheart qualify as a historical epic? It was released several years prior to "Gladiator"...

True, but it didn't "kick start" any sort of revival in the way Gladiator did. --Zagrebo 12:01, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

But if Braveheart is a historical epic, that means that Gladiator wasn't the first historical epic in 36 years as it says at the top of the page.


Where does it say that? All I can see if "The film's success may have helped to revive the historical epic genre, with subsequent films such as Troy, Alexander, and Kingdom of Heaven, the last of which was also directed by Scott." please point out where you are reading, oh and don't forget to sign your posts! SGGH speak! 11:36, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rome founded as a republic

The article says that it is incorrect to say that rome was founded as a republic, but cites the last etruscan king before rome revolted and became self governing. perhaps it should mention that when the first independant government was formed, it was a republic...

141.154.155.15 01:00, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

You mean the city itself. Maybe Gaius means the empire, or well, back in the days the lands of conquest made by rome. Mallerd 22:58, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Inaccuracy regarding Commodus' Hitleresque arrival

I looked at model of Rome in the Internet made under Mussolini's regime. Which historical building in Rome near the Coliseum could have accommodated that many soldiers, or was there none (besides the Circus Maximus)?

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=2894123&postcount=3

[edit] Sociopath

The article refers to Commodus as a sociopath, is this how he is referred to by third parties or is it an authors own opinion? I'm fine with it if it is the former, but the latter is a little suspect because you have to remember the context. Political life in Rome was heavily conflicted; backstabbing, betrayal and double standards were certainly acceptable tactics by the aristocracy to manipulate your enemies, and while Commodus' actions are going too far they weren't unusual enough for him to be called a sociopath, was Brutus a sociopath? He assassinated his role model and possible father Caesar. SGGH speak! 09:29, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Greek fire and catapult

In the influences article, in the historical paragraph, it is written that during the battle at the beginning of the movie, the catapult were using greek fire to fire fiery projectile even if the greek fire did not exist at this time.

About what we can see in the movie, maybe it was not greek fire, only big jars of oil with something to ignite the oil when the jars break upon impact. Some historical documents tells us that this type of projectile has existed during almost all the Ancient Roman empire. The only thing is that it was rarely used because oil was expensive and this weapon was not that much dangerous for the enemy army even if it as a devastating effect on the moral.Profile98765 18:19, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Whatever was used catapults were almost never used in battles by the Romans. They were reserved for sieges. Wayne (talk) 07:46, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure they were onagers, not catapults. Spartan198 (talk) 08:55, 4 May 2008 (UTC) Spartan198

[edit] Zulu

Did anyone else notice that the chanting of the Germanic barbarians before the battle is exactly the same as that uttered by the Zulus in the 1964 film Zulu, just before they attack? ComaDivine 01:51, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Got a citation for it though? Alientraveller 08:26, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I've noticed it mentions Gladiator on the Zulu film page, under "Awards & Homages". ComaDivine 16:57, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

The Maori haka reminded me of the chanting in this film `Mallerd (talk) 00:24, 19 January 2008 (UTC)`

[edit] some similarities and differences

I don't think the Marcus Aurelius - Maximus vs Commodus storyline is so implausible. Marcus Aurelius was the last of "The Five Good Emperors". The preceeding four had picked their successor, and adopted him, creating a meritocracy to preserve an aristocracy. Some historians consider it the high point of the Roman Empire. Therefore it is not unbelievable that Marcus Aurelius would have done the same. In addition, Commodus was only 19 when Marcus Aurelius died. Most histories recount that Marcus Aurelius brought up Commodus to be emperor. This movie takes the next step that Marcus Aurelius found him unqualified/unprepared. History shows this would have been an accurate prediction. Even though Marcus Aurelius is commonly referred to as a "philosopher king", during his reign the empire was often at war. He may have wanted a successful general to succeed him. In short, there is no evidence that Marcus Aurelius decided to dis-inherit his evil, incompetent son, and adopt a popular, successful general to be his successor, but it would have been a decision and action consistent with the predeeding 100 years of Roman history.

In the movie, Commodus is portrayed as an effete aristocrat. Once he became emperor, Commodus adopted the personification of Hercules, long-haired, bearded, carrying a club, and wearing animal skins. In short, somewhat like Russell Crowe.

74.243.26.11 02:12, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Roma victa, Roma victor, Roma victrix, Roma victoria, Roma, Roma, Roma, puke

http://www.nitpickers.com/movies/nitpick.cgi?np=29488

Roma is a feminine deity. Any phrase about her, or the city that she represents, must agree with the singular feminine.

Roma victa is grammatically correct but means "Rome is conquered". Roma victor means "Rome has conquered" but the gender is in disagreement. Roma victrix is correct but clearly not what Maximus said. Roma victoria means "Rome is trumphant" but disagrees in number. There'd have to be more than one Rome to use "victoria" in that way.

If a movie transcription you find online claims the phrase "Roma victa" was said in this scene, it is quite simply wrong. What Maximus said was "Roma victor", which is incorrect but common in English (Results 1 - 100 of about 306,000 for "roma victor").

So please don't make an attempt at changing the Latin in the article unless you know what you're talking about. Kthxbye.

--75.58.74.145 15:22, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] costumes?

I am missing information about the spectacular costumes and dress that were used in the movie. Are they historically correct, what about the uniforms, the armor, weapons, etc.? I do know that apparently the fabric used for Lucilla's beautiful dresses and some of the rich women was silk imported from Hyderabad, Andhra Pradesh. This should be mentioned somewhere. Gryffindor 02:38, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

i learned from wativhin this that maximus rules and commodus is a dick--E tac 07:26, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes they are correct--82.116.149.190 (talk) 15:40, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

The uniforms were historically "accurate" but not historically "correct". The armour used in the movie is called Imperial Gallic and ceased production 50 years before the movies timeframe so it is unlikely so many soldiers would have worn it. This brings up another inaccuracy, all the soldiers were wearing the same style of armour which is a misconception. Romans did not have our concept of obsolescence so their legions would wear mixed armour styles. If it was not worn out the armour worn could be many years out of date. A modern analogy would be the coalition troops in Iraq wearing a mix of WW1, WW2 and modern uniforms.Wayne (talk) 07:43, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sequel

Any one heard about Gladiator II ?--Blain Toddi 11:36, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Title of this section mispelled. I corrected. Spartan198 (talk) 09:00, 4 May 2008 (UTC) Spartan198

[edit] How Commodos killed Marcus Aurelius ?

Broke his neck ?... slain him with dagger ?...--Blain Toddi (talk) 15:38, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Please remember this isn't a forum for general discussion. But as it's Christmas and the season of good will, let us assume it was strangulation. Alientraveller (talk) 16:06, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
Suffication Mallerd (talk) 00:24, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pannonia and Germania

The article mentions that the first Battle was in fact fought in Pannonia and the movie mentions Germania ...well the last Battle in the Marcomannic war was fought in Laugaricio near modern Trencin/Slovakia against the Quadi in greater Germania ...so the movie is correct about Germania --Blain Toddi (talk) 10:19, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Maximus character

Maximus character as a general is not fictional at all ... certainly he was based on the real Roman General Marcus Valerius Maximianus who was the trusted general of Emperor Marcus Aurelius in the last five years of the Marcomannc wars 175-180 AD. Besides he was the Roman general who achieved the decisive victory in Laugaritio/ Slovakia against the Quadi Germanic tribe see Marcomannic Wars . I hope this charactor would be added to the article historical section .

--Blain Toddi (talk) 09:33, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

I've wondered sometimes if Maximus is meant to be a surrogate for Valerius Maximianus, but I don't think we can say anything as definite as "certainly he was based" on Maximianus. The account of the writing of the screenplay given in the article suggests Maximus was originally identified with Narcissus, and also that the writers used largely literary sources such as the Augustan History. Valerius Maximianus, if I remember rightly, leaves little or no trace on the literary record and his career is known from inscriptions etc. Cenedi (talk) 11:16, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
Do we have any cite indicating if the character was indeed Franzoni's inspiration? Alientraveller (talk) 11:16, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

The official home page of movie gladiator was mentioning that .. for reasons I dont know its not working any more !!

beside its logical :-

1-The name ... In movie Maximus ... In reality Maximianus

2-The battle ... The decisive battle in Laugaritio ( shown in the movie ) .. was won by Maximianus .

--Blain Toddi (talk) 15:22, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Do we have any reason for thinking the battle at the beginning of the film is intended to be the battle in Laugaritio? No such location is given in the movie, it's just a 'last battle against the barbarians' deal. I accept the parallels are there, just doubt that the writers' intentions were that detailed and specific. Cenedi (talk) 15:43, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Another similarities between Maximus and Maximianus

1- The conversation between Maximus and Commodos in Vindobona :

Commodos told Maximus that he might call him soon when he become emperor ... In reality when Commodos became emperor he used Maximianus in the war against the Sarmatians in 182 AD.

2- The movie show Maximus as an experienced cavalry officer ... In reality in 175 AD when there was a revolt by Cassius , Maximianus led the auxillary Germanic and Sarmatian detachments to the East .... The Sarmatians provided 8000 cavalry men as auxillary units to the Roman army ( 5500 where sent to Britain ) but the remainings moved to the east against Cassius under the command of Maximianus this indicate that Maximianus was a cavalry officer !!!

--Blain Toddi (talk) 18:03, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

OK, I've created an entry Marcus Valerius Maximianus. I would still be cautious about asserting he was the model for Maximus. I'd like to think the screenwriters were that clued up, but unless we can produce a statement from them that he was the original for Maximus, we have to leave it as speculation. Cenedi (talk) 18:55, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
The Maximus character's movie life and military history is a very close match to that of Tiberius Claudius Pompeianus. It is doubtful he was based on Marcus Valerius Maximianus because there were far fewer similarities than with Pompeianus. In the original script the characters name was Narcissus which was changed for obvious reasons. Wayne (talk) 07:17, 19 January 2008 (UTC)


If he was based on Pompeianus >>> he would be much older

--Blain Toddi (talk) 15:33, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Roman cohorts

I changed the size of cohorts from 500 men to 480 men ...for more details see Roman legion

--Blain Toddi (talk) 15:27, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] ...shown in a line formation;which offered no tactical benefits...

Removed this line because, in the battle near the start of the film, the legionaries are in fact advancing in cohorts, not a single line. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 156.34.19.134 (talk) 14:50, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Commodus' Death

According to my history book, Commodus was assassinated by the Praetorian Guards, while dressed as Hercules, he was going to the Senate.

[edit] Pollice Verso painting

Did anybody else notice that the first gladiator we see in the movie looks just like the guy in the painting? Do you suppose it was deliberate? He's using a different weapon, but it still caught my eye. Ifnkovhg (talk) 00:31, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

It's not up to us editors to draw comparisons, but the evidence is there if you the reader wish to add it up. Alientraveller (talk) 08:50, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Quintus information correct?

The plot summary says "Praetorian prefect, Quintus is reinstated as general by Commodus" however I am not sure this is correct. Isn't Quintus portrayed as a subordinate to Maximus in the regular army prior to the assassination of Marcus Aurelius? Later we see Quintus in the purple uniform of the Praetorian, but I don't think it was correct that at the beginning of the film he was the Praetorian Prefect. Can anyone confirm this? --PIngp0NG (talk) 15:43, 28 March 2008 (UTC)