Talk:Freya von Moltke

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[edit] Not demonstrably notable?

This article does not meet the notability guidelines at WP:BIO. Association with notables does not , itself, make a person notable. A diligent author might make a case for notability might be made from von Moltke's autobiograpy, Memories of Kreisau and the German Resistance by Freya von Moltke, but I'm not sure how. Unless a case for notability is made by December 1, 2007, I will nominate it for deletion.HopsonRoad (talk) 16:23, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Good luck with that, then. Her Memories of Kreisau and the German Resistance is better described as history, not autobiography. And since she is a subject of Moltmann-Wendel, Elisabeth, Das Leben lieben - mehr als den Himmel : Frauenporträts, Gütersloh : Gütersloher Verlagshaus, 2005, Dorothee von Medingas, Courageous Hearts: Women and the Anti-Hitler Plot of 1944, and Alison Owings Frauen: German Women Recall the Third Reich as well as other works already cited in the article, and since a topic is presumed to be notable if it has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, I suspect your nomination will fail. Or perhaps you will be lucky and be able to improve Wikipedia by deleting the article. You should perhaps ask the German Wikipedia to delete their article as well. Allen Dulles had this to say about her: "The Countess was more than just the wife of the hero von Moltke since she was his close collaborator, untiring comrade-in-arms and the only woman to be present at the meetings of the Kreisau-Circle composed of prominent freedom fighters, Church leaders, intellectuals, labor leaders and army officers who hoped to overthrow the Nazi regime." She has perhaps not attained the same dizzying heights of notability as, say, Helen Hartness Flanders, but she has certainly attained the level of notability required for Wikipedia, despite being a woman who worked in conjunction with her husband. - Nunh-huh 17:15, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Thank you for supporting the case for notability, Nunh-huh. You amply satisfy me with your argument. I'll try to incorporate that material into the article, unless you'd like to go first. I sense a little tongue-in-cheek with your HHF reference. Clearly HHF had the luxury of a peacetime setting to pursue a productive hobby, whereas FvM lived in the middle of a war under one of the most destructive regimes of all time. My issue was that the article didn't portray notable actions by FvM. BTW, the German article is quite light, too. But that's their issue. Sincerely, HopsonRoad (talk) 21:26, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Could you provide a reference for the Allen Dulles quotation, please? I have some descriptions of the other works that you cited in the next section. You could add it to the list, below. Sincerely,HopsonRoad (talk) 01:49, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Literature citing Freya von Moltke

  • Moltmann-Wendel, Elisabeth & Moltmann- Wendel, Elisabeth (2005), Das Leben lieben - mehr als den Himmel. Frauenporträts, Gütersloh: Gütersloher Verlagshaus, ISBN 3579052098-10 .
“ Dem Leben auf die Schliche kommen. Porträts mutiger und starker Frauen

Elisabeth Moltmann-Wendel porträtiert Frauen, die nicht einfach Harmonie und Selbsterfüllung suchten, sondern nach dem, was das Leben lebenswert, farbig, sinnenhaft, gerecht und gelingend macht. Sie stießen dabei auf Widerstände, an ungeschriebene Gesetze ihrer Gesellschaft, an die Starrheit der Religionen, an das Unverständnis von Männern, an die Grenzen des Lebens. Sie können uns heute lehren, dem Leben auf die Schliche zu kommen, Lebenskunst zu lernen und wieder aufzustehen: wie man Leben nicht nur erträgt, sondern ihm Farbe und Lust abgewinnen kann. Die Porträtierten: Hannah Arendt, Bettina von Arnim, Elisabeth Gnauck-Kühne, Renate Gräfin von Hardenberg, Annedore Leber, Freya Gräfin von Moltke, Henriette Schrader-Breymann, Charlotte Gräfin von der Schulenburg, Nina Schenk Gräfin von Stauffenberg, Henriette Visser't Hooft, Maxie Wander, Antonia von Württemberg.

 ”
  • Von Meding (Author), Dorothee; Balfour (Translator), Michael & Berghahn (Translator), Volker R. (1997), Courageous Hearts: Women and the Anti-Hitler Plot of 1944, Oxford & New York: Berghahn Books, ISBN 1571818537-10 .
“ Nazi justice following the attempt on Hitlers life on 20 July 1944 led not only to the brutal execution of scores of conspirators, but also dramatically changed the lives of their families. However, whereas it is the husbands who are celebrated annually as heroes of the resistance, little mention is made of their wives. This collection of interviews, which the author conducted with eleven of them, reveals that it was the womens’ courage that sustained their husbands both before the plot and later, in the face of certain violent death. ”
  • Owings, Alison (1995), Frauen: German Women Recall the Third Reich, Piscataway, New Jersey: Rutgers University Press, ISBN 0813522005-10 .
“ Powerful testimony from 29 German women survivors of the Third Reich that provides not only a stunning portrait of life on the home front but also insights into a society that spawned both Hitler and the Holocaust. Wanting to find out why German women "did not behave like the humane peacemakers, the nurturers that people believe women really are, [and] stop the Nazis," Owings, a TV news-writer based in California, visited and revisited her subjects over a period of years, usually in their homes, where she was cordially received. Those interviewed include a former concentration-camp guard; the widow of a Resistance hero; a lifelong Communist residing in what was then East Germany; and an unrepentant Nazi schoolteacher. Also offering testimony are Lotte Muller, a plumber, who was sent to Ravensbruck--the notorious women's camp--because of her Communist connections; former countess Maria von Lingen, who always thought of herself as more a European than a German; Margret Blersch, a physician who helped save people the "Nazis would have murdered;" and Erna Dubnak, a low-paid worker who hid her "dear friend" Hilda Naumann, a Jew, throughout the war. During the war, most of the women endured great hardships as bombing raids intensified, food grew scarce, and the Russians advanced. The collapse of the German economy and the climate of fear that the Nazis created initially ensured the support of many of Owens's subjects--but according to Freya von Moltke, whose husband was executed by the Nazis, even those who didn't support Hitler carry a burden of guilt: "People who lived through the Nazi time, and who still live, who did not lose their lives because they were opposed, all had to make compromises." Oral history at its best, and a much-needed record of WW II German women, who “faced the day-to-day consequences of the Third Reich with impudence or despair, hesitation or hope, with shame, and with blinders.” ”
  • Leber, Annedore & von Moltke, Freya (1961), Für und wider—Entscheidungen in Deutschland 1918-1945, Frankfurt-am-Main: Mosaik Verlag .
  • Grose, Peter (1996), Gentleman Spy: The Life of Allen Dulles, Amherst, Massachusetts: University of Massachusetts Press, ISBN 1558490442-10 .
“ Allen located Freya von Moltke, widow of Helmut, and assured her a steady supply of U.S. Army rations as she wrote her memoir of Moltke’s resistance activities and his Silesian homestead under Russion and Polish occupation. ”
  • von Moltke, Freya & Hoffmann, Eva (1996), Die Kreisauerin, Göttingen: Lamuv Verlag, ISBN 3889774415-10 .
“ Freya von Moltke berichtet von ihrem Leben mit dem Wiederstandskämpfer Helmuth James von Moltke, der Zeit des Nationalsozialismus, aber auch von den Jahren des Weiterlebens nach der Ermordung ihres Mannes. "Eine wichtige Zeitzeugin, mehr noch: eine bewundernswerte Frau." Friedrich Andrae in: ekz-Infrmationsdiest "Ein beeindruckendes zeitgeschichtliches Zeugnis" Martin Weskott in: Der evangelische Buchberater ”


HopsonRoad (talk) 01:47, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Upgrade of Article

[edit] Progress

  • I am in the middle of an upgrade of this article. I plan to complete it by 22 November. HopsonRoad (talk) 21:22, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
  • I have completed the update, subject to proofreading and input from other editors.HopsonRoad (talk) 03:17, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
  • I have proofread the article and done some wordsmithing. I'll be moving on to other projects, for the time-being.HopsonRoad (talk) 15:04, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

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