Talk:Freeza

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

↓    Skip to table of contents    ↓

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Freeza article.
Article policies
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Anime and manga, which aims to improve and expand anime and manga related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article or visit the project page.
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the assessment scale.
This article is supported by the Dragon Ball work group.
Freeza was a good article nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Reviewed version: June 1, 2007

Contents

[edit] Changeling

Is Freeza's species ever confirmed to be Changeling anywhere in the cannon? --24.172.193.247 20:22, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

No, so I removed it.--SUIT양복 21:13, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

On a side note, the article claims that Frieza's transformations are for comfort and to limit his power. This would therefore cause Cooler's Final Form to make no sense; for Cooler claims he "discovered" the transformation. This would mean that the transformations INCREASE one's power rather than limit it. After all, why would he need to "discover" a transformation that limits power he already has? Of course, this could simply be a plot hole.24.118.227.213 04:52, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

The DBZ movies are non-canon so ignore it. Adroa (talk) 22:55, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] From List of Dragon Ball characters

Attacks:

  • Death Ball
  • Death Beam
  • Crazy Finger Beam (in third form)
  • Energy Cutter

Someone who knows Freeza should put these special attacks in the main article if they aren't still there. -- ReyBrujo 21:10, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Attack lists aren't canonical and so don't really belong here. They almost never actually name the attacks in the anime or manga. Some are named in the daizenshuus, but the vast majority of "attack lists" come from video games... which don't count. JRP 21:49, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Shouldn't Freeza have a main article with this info on it. I mean when I type in "Freeza" I am sent to this page. He doesn't even have a biography.

Which is the correct way to spell his name? I have seen both Freeza and Frieza. Which one is correct? I would like somebody's input on this real soon, like tomorrow, or in an hour. I'll be back. (unsigned comment) 06:03,08 April 2006 (UTC)

Dude. I think you are new at this, but signing someone else's name to a comment is extremely bad etiquette. I'll remove my name from your comment because I think you were just cutting and pasting from above. (We also went through this whole naming controversy already, more than a year ago. Google test also says "Frieza" is more common.) JRP 04:13, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

In the US, his official name is spelled Frieza. You can check the official website: http://www.dragonballz.com/index.cfm?page=sagas&id=8 TJ Spyke 20:44, 26 April 2006 (ET)

And yet it's spelled "Freeza" in all of FUNimation's subs and in the Viz manga. Ai-yah. Papacha 04:06, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

yeah-god 18:54, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

i believe it is spelled frieza kai hyuuga

[edit] Article Enhancements

  • Wiki-star: Good day fellow contributors. I must say that this is a fine day indeed. 2 more weeks of school, and we're finally out! But onto matters of real importance. It seems this article is calling for a new format. This article is ok, but it can be a whole lot better and more fun to read. I have taken it upon myself to format all Dragon Ball character pages the same, however i cannot do it alone. (At least not right now). But i just wanted to alarm you all that this article will be in a new and much better format very soon. Don't worry, nothing will be deleted (unless it's uneccessary). More information will be added, and the article will be in a much better organization for all readers. For an example of what this article will son look like, check out the Buu or Vegetto articles. Adios!

Wiki-star 05:43, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the warning. Your cancer of false dub alliterations, three dozen pictures per section, and inane rewrites will be reverted by myself and others on sight. Have a great vacation! Papacha 17:22, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
And as far as being "too harsh" goes, I'd say you've earned it. Particularly with your "everything has to be MY way mentality" you've demonstrated on countless occassions and your disrespect to other users once you drop this civil fascade of yours, all the while whining about the same things you dish out.
Buu edit war
Buu's discussion
Vegeta's discussion
Wikipedia:Help desk#Further Restrictions
This is where you come in and say something. Probably something pithy like wanting a "civilized conversation" or talking R-E-A-L S-L-O-W, inevitably ending in "buddy" or "my friend". But flame wars are fruitless, so say your piece and get out. Confrontation seems to be your forté, but it gets boring after a while and I don't have the time.
Of course, you're free to do what you want. I don't have the wherewithal to stop you, and I can't rightly call your edits vandalism, even if I strongly disagree with them. I'm no "Wiki-deity"; I have no greater hold on an article than anyone else. But - and it's a BIG but - it's not yours either, and any edits for the worse will be undone.
So take care. I don't expect this to carry out like the row with Daishokaioshin, since yelling over the net's old hat, and e-cock measurement's not my thing ('CAUSE I'M SECURE, GODDAMNIT <_< >_>). So prove me wrong. Tell us exactly *what* you want to do, if it's not a rewrite. Not a breakdown of his transformations into smaller sections, as what's given is succinct enough. Not Freeza -> Frieza, whole episode summaries, or a bajillion pictures of him either, since FUNi already acknowledges the former and you've been spoken to about the others.
Maybe I was too harsh. I wish I could say I had faith in the future, but fool me once... Papacha 19:01, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
Let's assume good faith before preemptively doing something. Wiki-star seems to want to genuinely improve DBZ articles, but by the looks of it takes his passion too far or the wrong way, getting into arguments with other users. Although I see nothing in major need of fixing in this article, and Wiki-star's tone is not the best. I'm also against the possible adding of so many pictures and the lay-out of the two articles, as while it may appear better to Wiki-star the huge amount of minor subsections is not very organized and all over to me. It's difficult to scan and read actually. But let's be civil and not jump to conclusions. Voice of Treason 20:20, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
Curse you do-gooders and your... y-your... DO-GOODERY~!! You're right, of course. I went on the offensive because I don't want to see articles I and others have put heavy work into being FUBAR'ed up, but yeah, point taken. I'll suck my thumb and bide my time.
Rawr. Papacha 20:47, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
Well I take back what I said now, as after Wiki-star moved the page the pic no longer works, and I don't know how to undo a move. Things like this are usually discussed first. Voice of Treason 23:23, 12 May 2006 (UTC)


  • Wiki-star: To be honest with you, i don't care whether or not you like the way i edit these Dragon Ball articles. Because instead of actually congratulating me on actually making an effort, you folks are insulting my contributions. I don't really care, you still won't stop me from contributing my knowledge. Quite frankly, theres nothing obviously wrong about them. This article can be in a much better shape than it is now. And because knowone is adding more information about Frieza, it is my ferm belief to add these informations myself. If you don't like it, tough. It will make the article much easier to read, and easy navigation through reading about Frieza. Thanks! Wiki-star 06:17, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
And honestly, you liking what is honestly an eye-sore is something I don't particularly care about honestly, to be honest honestly. Actually, telling honest someone honest "tough" honest on a collaborative effort like Wikihonest is 'fermly' incorrect... truthonestly.
Honestly - last time, honest - you never read anything but the criticisms, and your attack on someone who was defending you was par for the course. Maybe (maybe?!) I was froggy in the beginning, but the end result for you is always the same - ego stroking-a-go-go, mostly 'cause you disregard the suggestions of others. Of course, I'm contributing to this ego even now by paying you mind, so I'll stop now, please.
In any case, do what you like. It's a free internet, despite what those nagging billing charges will tell you. Hones... Papacha 07:37, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Naming

Ok, I notice this article was changed from Freeza to Frieza, and likewise Coola's page was changed to Cooler. Am I the only one who finds that inconsistent? The majority of DB articles use the original or manga translated names it seems. Also, this entire article uses Freeza, so Frieza at the top is a little confusing. And Coola used to let you search his name and come up directly on his page. Type Cooler and you get a page on refrigeration devices. Am I alone in thinking this change wasn't necessary (and likely fueled not so much by logic as by the "this is English Wiki so we must swear by FUNimation naming" philosphy some exhibit)? Onikage725 16:18, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Wikistar's the one who initiated the move.
Figures. Wikistar's under the impression that the only source for English speakers worldwide is what Americans saw on Cartoon Network -.- Onikage725 09:52, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
...
What? That wasn't explanantion enough...?!
Anyway - it's a bit of a hassle to change them back (articles can't be so easily moved once they're edited) as an admin has to either kill Freeza/Coola or conduct the move themselves. Since my dial's turned to "slothy" in DBZ affairs nowadays please free to pick up the slack. Papacha 17:35, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
I'd love to, but I'm still getting used to things here. How do I go about that, or who do I need to contact? This really was a ridiculous and pointless move just so one user can feel more comfortable with his lack of exposure beyond Toonami. Onikage725 09:52, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
Someone will need to contact an admin or go to WP:RM to request a move with proper rationale. Voice of Treason 19:10, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

The majority of people who are fans of DB/DBZ/DBGT and speak English know him as Frieza, it's more common than "Freeza". I think it should stay this way. TJ Spyke 23:36, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

The consensus has been to use original or manga translated names (the Viz Manga uses Freeza btw, and the manga itself is the highest source of canon information). It's inconsistent to have every other article in this format, and this article itself for that matter, and then use that name on top. "Frieza" doesn't even make sense, pronunciation-wise. Obviously in English those letters together make a y sound, not a long e, and as such should sound like Fry-za when said with that spelling. In Japanese, i is pronounced like a long e and e is like a long a. So that would imply a name that sounded like Free-ayza (which is clearly not how it is pronounced in any version). Also, "Frieza" doesn't preserve the pun. Freeza and Coola (and King Cold) are obviously puns of a chilly nature. "Frieza" looks more like the plural or past-tense forms of the word fry, which implies heat, which is the exact opposite of the intended pun. The dub basically has a typo. They pronounce it correctly. The manga spells it correctly. It's common knowledge what the correct romanization is. Onikage725 02:30, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

About Coola being more obvious, actually Cooler makes the pun slightly more obvious. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Buster Sword (talk • contribs) .

[edit] Proposed Move

Frieza→Freeza for reasons stated above. 95% of DB articles go by original source or Viz Manga. What sense is it to have two FUNimation mistranslations? It's inconsistent and more importantly incorrect, regardless of "how many English speaking fans" watched the anime adaptation on Toonami. Onikage725 14:30, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation and sign your vote with ~~~~
  • Oppose Reason: Because this is the English version of Wikipedia, and because according to the cartoon designers and editors, Frieza is the offical and correct spelling.Wiki-star 14:43, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose Reason: Because the ACTUAL English version name is Frieza, not Freeza. The television program is the best source for the English version. The manga is solely linked to the Japanese version...and we seriously shouldn't be spelling it as "Fureeza" or "Freezer" or anything else of that nature. It's simply Frieza for various reasons. Also, in the English translation, many things are inaccurate in the manga. Let me point out something very obvious. Pui Pui's name is changed to Pocus...for no reason whatsoever. It's wrong to spell it as Freeza simply because the Viz translation is not the end-all be all version. The anime wording, and the wording on the trading card game cards, and the naming on the action figures, should be the spelling we abide by. Please take some time to rethink this. If you want Japanese version naming, then edit it in the Japanese wikipedia. It seriously isn't the correct name. And anyone who denies this, simply WANTS the Japanese names in it for no apparent reason other than to add more confusion. Krillin is Krillin, not Kuririn...or Kulilin, or anything else. This is English version people, not Japanese version. - Zarbon
I'm sorry, but it's hard to take your comment about Viz naming seriously considering how you abide by FUNimation. Are you aware how much was changed, dialogue, music, names, plot points? Think to the Cell Saga, and watch some flashbacks. They told us that Dr. Gero was the leader of the Red Ribbon Army and that Tao Pai Pai was a top General. Watch the Red Ribbon Army saga and try to make sense of that. THIS is your ultimate "non-confusing" reference? Onikage725 23:42, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
No it is not the ultimate reference. The ultimate reference is the actual merchandise, like I stated. It's not necessarily the inner findings of the DVD, but the most logical perspective is to take the names from the cards and action figures. I am a dbz villain collector myself, and Frieza is my 9th most favorite character, so it is commonplace for me to know that his name is Frieza. If you really want to go by manga alone, then I suggest you go by "Freezer" or even "Fureeza-Sama" since those are even more accurate than "Freeza." However, since you want the most US grafted name, the best would be Frieza. Do you see a little of where I'm getting at. - Zarbon
Cards and toy lines as canon information for a manga and the anime based on it? Are you serious? Onikage725 16:57, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
I am wholeheartedly serious, taking into consideration that most people would recognize him as Frieza...why make it more confusing for the people. Think of it this way, the series came out before the viz manga surfaced, and although I love both, the series itself is intertwined with the merchandise, that's why it's a better source. - Zarbon
Can you cite a source when you claim that "most people would recognize him as Frieza"? And did the ORIGINAL merchandise (as in the merchandise that came before FUNimation's stuff) call Freeza "Frieza"? Not that it matters, since action figures and cards are not in any way canon. There are cards for Dragon Ball Z that list utterly ridiculous power levels for characters. Should we accept those numbers as factual as well, just because they're the merchandise, and the merchandise is more important than the manga or the anime? Daishokaioshin 23:47, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Merchandise released pre-Namek by Bandai (licensed by FUNimation) for the North American market used the spelling "Freeza". Note that they also used "Mr. Savage" for Mr. Satan. As I've noted elsewhere, until the name was literally written out in a title card in FUNimation's original syndication dub of the series (episode 34, "The Ruthless Frieza"), the closed-captions were written out with the "Freeza" spelling. "Freeza" is used in all official Japanese merchandise when written in romaji, still to this day (and always has been; see the Super Battle Collection figures, video games, etc.). I continue to refer to the explanation used in the Name Pun section for my main argument. VegettoEX 22:15, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Keep in mind that this is not the Japanese version. There is also Japanese wikipedia. that's where that kind of info belongs. But by naming the Japanese version titles into the US version, you are intentionally destroying the chances of the US version from being considered. For example, many of the versions are being exploited at the same time. It's only logical that we stick to the US version. For more info on a similar matter, it's interesting to note that Sentai is NOT and I repeat NOT Power Rangers. The show itself is completely different. Queen Bandora is Rita Repulsa. But on Wikipedia, her name is not Queen Bandora. It is Rita Repulsa. That's because we are going by the US version names, not the Japanese ones. The Japanese names should be discarded entirely. They should only be on the Japanese wiki. That's why there are different versions in the first place. - Zarbon
Kyouryuu Sentai ZyuRanger. Super Sentai. My, those articles are informative and in English. Japanese Wiki articles are not written in English, and therefore English speaking fans of these series' will not gain any information from going there. Language selection on Wikipedia does not select a country from which knowledge may come, it is the language the articles are written in. Power Rangers is an entirely different show using purchased footage from various Sentai shows, not a Sentai adaptation. The US dub of DBZ is a direct adaptation of a Japanese show, and the dubbing is riddled with well known inconsistencies. There are very accurate translations of the original source material included on every DVD, and a decently accurate translation of the manga (a handful of names aside, and FUNimation advocates have no place griping about name changing). Is our goal to give the reader accurate information, or to stick by one (out of many) partially inaccurate version out of familiarity? This is an encyclopedia, not a fansite. Onikage725 21:21, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Weak Support, per the Anime Wikiproject suggestion, Characters should be called what the series officially states their romaji names as. If that does not exist, use what they are named in the most recent or popular English translation, if it exists, isn't egregiously bad, and is the generally-used name (a google test is appropriate here). Otherwise, use a literal transliteration. I remember reading in a magazine that the Spanish version was very accurate, dubbing him "Freeza" as that was the official romaji translation. Note that フリーザ is Furīza, where Furi is used instead of Fri, making the pronounciation in Spanish Friiza, which matches the english word Freeza (in pronounciation). I don't have the magazine anymore, that is why my vote is weak. I will change my vote if I am shown that japanese "cartoon designers and editors" wanted the name to be Frieza instead of Freeza. I also suggest reviewing other articles, like Krillin. Manga names have greater importance than anime ones if the series started in manga, in example, Sailor Moon's article is Usagi Tsukino, not Serena Tsukino. -- ReyBrujo 16:59, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Support, per reasons stated by Onikage725, VegettoEX and myself on this and other pages. This is what you should of done before you moved the page in the first place, Wiki. Papacha 19:27, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Support, per the rational for the name spelling currently in use in the Coola article under the Name Pun section. Let's also not forget simple common sense, including the fact that the closed-captioners spelled the name with the double-"ee" before FUNimation literally wrote out their version of the name in an episode's title card. VegettoEX 22:55, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Support, per nom. I'm against FUNImation's naming and plot reversions, though I wouldn't be averse to Whiskers the Wonder Cat. Voice of Treason 03:57, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
Moved. —Nightstallion (?) 12:38, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Comments moved from WP:RM

Comment Google test: Frieza is 807,000 and Freeza is 394,000. That said, I personally perfer the latter spelling and so I offer no judgement on this move. Whichever is chosen by this process, we should call official and I'll move all links in all articles to match because right now it is an inconsistent mess. Would anyone support me in a Wikiproject to come up with a list of standardized naming conventions for Dragon Ball-related articles, if I started one? JRP 20:13, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
Comment While the vote thus far is in favor of the move, I should point out that if it swings against, that wiki-project will face another problem. The majority of DB pages use the conventions I'm striving for with these two articles, so if these two go against then we need to discuss if all of them should go by FUNimation names. Onikage725 13:12, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

This is the English version of Wikipedia, and because according to the cartoon designers and editors, Frieza is the offical and correct spelling. Wiki-star 14:43, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Comment, FUNimation did not "design" the cartoon. They dubbed the anime (which is secondary on the list of Dragon Ball canon). If you want to play the "this is English Wiki" card, then the manga is the FIRST source of official information, and the English version of the manga spells it Freeza. Onikage725 15:55, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
Though they certainly did edit it. *badum-CHING!*
Curse the sexual urban dictionary for taking my rimshot away... oh, DAMMIT. DISREGARD, DISREGARD! Papacha 20:57, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Per the Anime Wikiproject suggestion, Characters should be called what the series officially states their romaji names as. If that does not exist, use what they are named in the most recent or popular English translation, if it exists, isn't egregiously bad, and is the generally-used name (a google test is appropriate here). Otherwise, use a literal transliteration. I remember reading in a magazine that the Spanish version was very accurate, dubbing him "Freeza" as that was the official romaji translation. Note that フリーザ is Furīza, where Furi is used instead of Fri, making the pronounciation in Spanish Friiza, which matches the english word Freeza (in pronounciation). I don't have the magazine anymore, that is why my vote is weak. I will change my vote if I am shown that japanese "cartoon designers and editors" wanted the name to be Frieza instead of Freeza. I also suggest reviewing other articles, like Krillin. Manga names have greater importance than anime ones if the series started in manga, in example, Sailor Moon's article is Usagi Tsukino, not Serena Tsukino. -- ReyBrujo 16:59, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Comment, Kuririn, Chaozu, Tenshinhan, Son Goku...the precedent is there. And as you said with Furiza, the u is effectively silent and the i is equivolent to a long e in english (or "ee"). Onikage725 19:05, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

per reasons stated by Onikage725, VegettoEX and myself on this and other pages. This is what you should of done before you moved the page in the first place, Wiki. Papacha 19:27, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

  • Comment, Google test: Frieza is 807,000 and Freeza is 394,000. That said, I personally perfer the latter spelling and so I offer no judgement on this move. Whichever is chosen by this process, we should call official and I'll move all links in all articles to match because right now it is an inconsistent mess. Would anyone support me in a Wikiproject to come up with a list of standardized naming conventions for Dragon Ball-related articles, if I started one? JRP 20:13, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
Comment, You're darn straight. Name localizations are all *over* the place in these articles, a set standard (though it may prove difficult to enforce) is sorely needed and long overdue. Papacha 20:36, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
Comment, then by that note, we should also be deciding the fate of the List of Freeza Related Characters in Dragon Ball article. I feel I should also add that while that article looks inconsistent with the two in question now, the fact is it was consistent with the way the articles were before the completely undiscussed move. Onikage725 20:42, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
Comment, yep. Again, as you say the article was intact and by that name prior to the unorthodox move. But now, what's good for the goose is good for the flunkies. And the goose's doting daddy & non-canonical brother and offspring by proxy. ^_^ Papacha 20:53, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
Comment, Y'know, it also might help to point out to voters the following- the name's are puns. Brothers Freeza and Coola are puns off of the words freezer and cooler. Frieza and Cooler takes one name and nixes the pun (unless someone wants to tell me they store ice pops in their "friezer") while making the other one blatant. Onikage725 23:38, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dragon Ball

I've set up a page, to eventually use for a vote as discussed above. Before I leave messages in Dragon Ball contributors' talk pages, since this is a hotbed area the contributors here should check it out first to make sure that I am not misrepresenting the debate in any way and am being as fair to all points as possible. Check it out: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dragon Ball JRP 21:49, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Significance

Do not remove the significance section it is important also it is FRIEZA got it user:Dragon Emperor —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dragon Emperor (talk • contribs) .

Sign with ~~~~ at the end of your post. Also, we should avoid peacock terms (the most, the greatest, the best, etc). If you want to write something, write it down here first. -- ReyBrujo 04:35, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Please do those of us who discussed how the article should spell the name a favor and READ that discussion, see what the consensus is, add to the discussion, but don't just DECLARE IT IN BOLD AS IF THE DISCUSSION NEVER HAPPENED AND YOU ARE RIGHT AND WE ARE STOOPID. Thank you. Onikage725 18:38, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article format

Hello.

I would like to bring the Freeza article into a similar format as the one I've used for Piccolo and Tenshinhan. Any objections? Beowulph 13:50, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I'd rather it not, honestly; keeping it shorter in scope and more on the line of "fictional-biographical" (if there could ever be such a thing) would be my preference over the blow-by-blow that is Tenshinhan and Piccolo. While I've worked on both and neither's terrible or nuthin', they have an awful tendency to ramble and talk around the subject. Keeping the page as concise as possible would be for the best, I think.
Also, since Freeza's place in the plot is well-defined and for the most part set in the same arc (unlike the above, who appear in extended portions throughout the series) I don't see it as being that dire a need. The only other major role he has is that of plot device of the Bardock special, which is more on the line of "prologue" and presented as such in the article. His cameos in other flicks and filler are too inconsequential to justify much more. Papacha 17:13, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Papacha on this one. Piccolo and Ten are major characters who appear throughout most of the series. Freeza is the villain of one saga, for the most part. The article currently says all there really is to say. Onikage725

[edit] Pic

I hear there is a redesign of Mecha Frieza for Super Dragon Ball Z. Can someone put a pic in the article? I think it would be beneficial, as a new character design for Frieza hasn't happened in years. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Buster Sword (talk • contribs) .

Nemu reinserted the pic, but I'm trying to figure how to insert it into the text so it won't look quite so awkward. Voice of Treason 21:07, 11 July 2006 (UTC
Maybe stick it in the appearance section instead? Nemu 21:10, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Nah... we'll figure something out. It's a VG design, so we'll figure out the best way for it to go around there. I'ts not a problem. Voice of Treason 21:15, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
He looks like... it's s-sooooo... b-but... nevermind. Papacha 06:12, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] not EVERY Dragonball Z villian is sadistic

As of recently, the characters Babidi, Cell, Coola, Dodoria, Majin Buu, Nappa, Raditz, and Vegita have all been listed under fictional sadists. Although all of these characters have willingly inflicted pain on others, they do not all do so JUST FOR THE SAKE OF IT! Where Freeza clearly enjoys causing others suffering, and will often deliberatly hold back from killing his opponent just to torture them for amusement, most of the other antagonists do not seem to enjoy torturing others in and of itself, but rather have some other motive, even if similar. Vegita, Nappa, and Raditz appeared to simply want to prove thier own strength by killing the protagonists, and also the formwer two had a secondary motive of aqqiring the Dragonballs. Likewise, Cell brutalized the Z fighters solely to anger Gohan, as to force him to become SS 2, and in that regard his motive was that he wanted a challenge. Majin Buu essentially had the mind of a young child, and as such he did not seem cruel so much as neive. Even in his later forms, his goals only seemed to be to challenge hiself and prove his own strength. Even though the characters are shown to be pleased as the protagonists suffer, this seems to be because they are pleased that they are superior to thier enemies, not just because the protagonists are suffering, and as such could be regarded a typical "bad guy" show of arrogance. Further, almost every Dragonball villain is also being listed as a psychopath. As stated in the discussion area for Fictional psychopaths, the criteria for that category are MUCH more than just being amoral and ruthless, and before placing articles under an already grossly overpopulated category, one should actualy read the critera listed in that category. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.24.232.29 (talk • contribs) 66.24.232.29 (UTC)

Your argument condradicts the point you are trying to make. All the villains you mentioned are sadists (not that most have their own articles). If you fight and brutalize someone simply because you want to prove you're stronger, it means you're a sadist. If you torture someone you bring out the enemy's hidden powers that also means you're a sadist. If anyone prolongs a fight they are sure they can win, they are most certainly sadists. Whoever you are, your argument for the population of Dragon Ball villains in the category "Fictional sadists" (Which doesn't even exist anymore) is quite frankly silly. Correct if i'm wrong but I'm not sure you completely understand the definition of sadist. As I remind you again, prolonging suffering, even in the case of arrogance (which Freeeza does himself so I really don't know what basis you're arguing from) is in fact, a sadistic tendency. Just because someoone is arrogant doesn't mean the person isn't also sadistic. that simply means the person is narcissistic and sadistic. Your argument for Majin Buu is, quite frankly, even more stupid. Why even point out the Majin Buu first seen at all? Most don't believe he's an outright sadist anyway, since he was following the orders of his masters, the fact he somewhat enjoyed it shows he has an element of evil in him, and yes, sadism. Besides, when Buu was listed under "fictional sadists" they were reerring specifically to his other forms, which by the way definitely fit under the fictional sadist despriction and the forms ALL SHARE THE SAME ARTICLE! Babidi is also a sadist, as he enjoyed disposing of his own henchmen when he had no use for them, and he enjoyed seeing them writhe in pain. Cell went back in time because he wanted to absorb Androids 17 and 18, and cause more suffering and pain to the world. Whether Vegeta and Nappa had alternative methods or not, they still enjoyed brutalizing the protagonists, and I personally believe that they would not go to a distant planet, for magical orbs that grant almost any wish seeingthat their comrade is dead and expect the native would just give it to them. Obviously they were expecting a fight (an easy fight) and didn't mind if they had to use force, In fact they would probably even prefer if there was resistance as 1.) They are Saiyans and thus, love fights, and 2.) They would make taking the Dragon Balls much more enjoyable. I also like to point out that every Dragon Ball villain is NOT listed as fictional psychopaths, and to do so would be stupid. Freeza is probably the best example of a sadist in Dragon Ball, simply because it is so apparent of his cruelty, and what you seem to be doing is comparing all the noted villains to Freeza is again, frankly, quite stupid. You seem not to understand what a sadist is so to clarify it for you, A sadist is one who delights in the pain of others. Read a dictionary once in a while, or better yet an encyclopedia. Maybe you should try Wikipedia Uglyguy2006 21:43, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Actually, perhaps you are the one who should read a dictionary. A sadist is a person who derives sexual pleasure from the torture or torment of others. Someone who causes others pain or suffering for others, without any sexual motivations, is by definition not a sadist.PiccoloNamek (talk) 13:54, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Pretty much every Dragon Ball Z villain is a sadist, apart from the antagonist's minor henchmen, like the ones that Mecha Freeza had. Elite henchmen are sadists because they have a higher authority than the minor henchmen, they are stronger than most and I remember Zarbon repeatedly headbutting Vegeta just for the sake of being cruel (although Zarbon cared more about beauty than being sadistic). Vegeta was sadistic in the start of Z because he wanted to prove that he was stronger than all his opponents and he was the Prince Of Saiyans. He couldn't face being defeated (example: When Goku owned him at Kaio-ken x3) and would go to desperate measures just to defeat his opponent. Nappa wasn't as sadistic as the rest, even though he was an elite, but played with his opponents a bit before finishing them off. With Freeza, pain was like going to the amusement park for him. Cell wasn't as sadistic either, because he could've killed Trunks when he realised that his speed was diminishing at Super Saiyan 3rd Grade, but it wasn't worth it because he always wanted to challenge a new opponent that was as strong as he was. Fat Boo was a playful child, didn't know the difference between right and wrong and just did what Babidi told him to do. He wasn't sadistic, but by the time of when he was Super Boo, he was a little more sadistic and kill anyone if he didn't get a challenge. Kid Boo was just an assassin, didn't give a damn who he killed, like Fat Boo, just without anyone telling him to do it. There's my conclusion, most DBZ villains are sadists. And no, they are not sexually motivated killers. PiccoloNamek, why don't you play DBZ Budokai Tenkaichi game series sometime, and see what Android 18's ultimate move is? Son Gohan (talk) 12:46, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cooler and Kuriza

In the article, these characters are mentioned as though they are first level cannon. Can we please take them out of the main article and place them in a non-manga cannon section? Beowulph 00:49, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

We really don't need to separate canon and non-canon besides a quick mention if nessesary unless it contradicts something. Nemu 01:01, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
Footnotes and deferrals are given when these characters are mentioned, whether when first mentioned in text or the bio-box. There's no reason to segregate these two out of their current place. Voice of Treason 18:31, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Family tree

Regarding this edit, I have asked for some opinions at WFA, in case you are curious. -- ReyBrujo 05:46, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Frieza's 5 Minutes Until Boom Statement

In his battle with Goku, Frieza claimed Namek'd go boom in Five minutes. But they still have time to stare at each other, fight, make a wish, talk, stare some more, Goku talked to King Kai, and get cut in half(Frieza). That was more like FIVE HOURS!--suit-n-tie 04:43, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

That's the reason I consider everything after that point non-canon. There really isn't an explanation for that, it's just a plot hole. It's possible that it was a translation error, though.--KojiDude (viva la BAM!) 22:23, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
What does this have to do with the article? This talk page is for discussing the article, not what the article is about. If you have something constructive to say, please do so. Otherwise, please find a message board or forum to speak of such things.
Daishokaioshin 22:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
Most of the fight was filler. It was fairly short in the manga. Nemu 22:34, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
Huh... I skipped that part of the manga. (Sweatdrop) Nevermind the translation error thing, then.--KojiDude (viva la BAM!) 22:36, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
I think it'd be prudent to remember that Freeza, not Toriyama, said it'd be five minutes. He also said that his attack would destroy the planet and was surprised it still existed after he blasted it. It's quite possible he was simply mistaken. Beowulph 23:26, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
Yes, but seriously, five minutes? That is hardly enough time for that fight. Freeza must have poor math skills. It was a stretch, I guess.--suit-n-tie 21:54, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
I pointed this out on a board once, but on that subject there are two things to keep in mind. The first is that destabilizing a planet's core is tricky business and would be hard to pinpoint to the exact minute even with sophisticated instrumentation (which Freeza was not using). Which means he was bluffing to a degree and guessing to another, getting under Goku's skin. The other thing is that Freeza's concept of a minute should be completely different from Goku's (to say nothing of what a Namekian standard minute would be). Since time is pretty much calculated on the day-night cycle on Earth, and we know nothing of Freeza's homeworld or if his army has a standard unit of time that they all use, it wouldn't necessarily be based on a 24 hr day (and thus 5 minutes wouldn't necessarily be 300 seconds). And yes, as was said, the manga version of the battle was much shorter. Goku is not beaten into a temporary coma and the non-fight scenes are dramatically less. Onikage725
Holy crap, that's a good explanation. Should we put that in the article or in Namek so this question isn't asked so frequently?--KojiDude (viva la BAM!)
Good explanation, but where did you find this out?--Suit-n-tie 05:04, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
This is all very interesting, but none of it has anything to do with the article. As has been pointed out to Suit-n-tie repeatedly on various talk pages, the discussion pages are for talking about the ARTICLE and >NOT< what the article is ABOUT. Please don't encourage the asking of pointless questions by continuing to discuss this. I'm sure there are plenty of message boards out there this could be talked about on.
Daishokaioshin 05:09, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
Jeez, you didn't have to bring that up, I get it okay? I'll stop. I'm only human, ya know.--Suit-n-tie 03:08, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

it just takes 5 minutes. they are moving much faster than we see them do. just a plot hole all other theories are bullshit.-Zadsat 18:53, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Very true. If we were watching them, in a blink of an eye, Freeza would be cut in half and Goku would be standing there beaten up. We'd be like, wtf just happened? Those two were fine like three seconds ago. :|.

-G

I'm watching the saga again. Frieza says that "...most planets would have blown by now. But this is a tough old bird, i'll give her two more minutes". So there is your answer.

-G

In one of the episodes King Kai makes reference to the 5 minuits statement saying that most of the 5 minuits had already been used up. In the episode where Frieza says 2 more minutes you might be able to see how long it actually takes them to talk, stare, and fight since at the end of the episode the narrator says theres one minute left. Also thats a good theory about alien time compared to space time, I remember when Vegeta took a nap and announced that it was going to be for 30 minutes but when Krillen had come back Gohan told him that Vegeta was sleeping for at least an hour, I don't remember it perfectly but it was deff over an hour. Oh and Frieza probably has blown up many planets before so he probably knows how long it would take, theres got to be a power of the blast / time ratio for the destruction of the planet which maybe he misjudged. Lucasthalefty 13:38, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Freeza was probably either bluffing, or he just overestimated his strength. Son Gohan (talk) 12:49, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Consider this, the anime cuts away several times, which can assume to occur concurrently with the fight between Goku and Vegeta. Also consider abilities, goku and Frieza are fighting, and they both have the ability to annihilate planets, they can probablly move fast enough to fit an hour or so worth of moves into five minutes. Also consider that they like to make money so they drew out the fight, it's as simple as that, don't get so pedantic, don't try to explain something with no explaination. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Adroa (talk • contribs) 23:01, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] removal

I removed zarbon from relations as the ginyu force are top fighters and i could not find a way to word zarbon on there. - Zadsat 18:53, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

whatever —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.163.215.253 (talk • contribs).

[edit] GA nomination failed

In no way is this ready to be a good article. Only one point is out of universe. It has only one non-primary source, and it really contains no other real sources. The writing is fairly sub-par, and it contians too much fan information. This needs to be condensed, given a rewrite, and should get out of universe information before being bothered with. TTN 21:48, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Frieza should not have a son listed in this article.

This article should only be DBZ related.

I don't see why he can't be mentioned. As long as it's noted Kuriza is only in Neko Majin, it's okay. // DecaimientoPoético 20:25, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Yes, it lends to an out of universe perspective as well, doesn't it?Onikage725 14:15, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Frieza's Death Ball ten times the size? I don't think so

In the article, it says that on Earth, Frieza makes a Death Ball ten times the size of the Death Ball used to destroy Planet Vegeta. I highly doubt so; The Death Ball that was created for Planet Vegeta was almost as big as Planet Vegeta, and the Death Ball created for Trunks was about the size of King Cold's spaceship. The Death Ball was at least 100x smaller.83.81.238.19 23:14, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Excuse me, I made some mistakes on my Death Ball comment

As big as Planet Vegeta, what was I saying... It was by far not as big as the planet, but it was still alot bigger than the Death Ball for Trunks (look at when the Death Ball hits Planet Vegeta and you see how HUGE it must've been, as big as a whole country at least!).83.81.238.19 23:14, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This MUST be made clear!

I don't understand several people are telling me that King Cold in his Form 2 state was more powerful than the Mecha-Freeza seen with him on Earth. This hasn't been made clear. And what about Coola? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.111.223.14 (talk) 00:57, August 30, 2007 (UTC)

Cool is from 2 non-canon movies, so his power relative to his father's is never discussed. In fact, the 5th movie was made prior to the Trunks arc of the TV series, which is why Coola never mentions King Cold. As for Cold and Freeza... I dont have on hand right now, but I'm pretty sure when sensing Freeza's power they remark that there is a greater power with him (which would have been Cold). Onikage725 04:27, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

I'll add to this; King Cold is weaker than Frieza, the evidence for this is that he is somewhat afraid of Frieza. EX: Cold acts frightened while Frieza attacks Future Trunks, saying "You'll destroy us all!" or something to that affect, can't remember word for word. Anyway, if Cold was stronger than Frieza, he would have been more like "Is that all, Frieza? I could do better than that" or at least would act like it was no big deal. Cooler is stronger than Frieza, thus he is stronger than King Cold. As for the power sensing arguement, the Z-warriors don't say that there was a greater power than Frieza, they say there is a power as STRONG as Frieza, making them fairly equal in power.24.118.227.213 04:43, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

That's all fanon though. I don't mean offense, I'm just saying fan theories aren't our thing on Wikipedia. Also, when they first sense the two they do talk about it like they're comparable, but in the next episode Vegeta says Cold is stronger. It's the scene where he and Yamcha are flying. Yamcha is amazed at Vegeta's level of speed, and Vegeta is upset that Goku "went too easy" on Freeza. Then he starts wondering who the other power is, with a ki much larger than Freeza's.Onikage725 03:18, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

This is just a guess, but couldnt the larger power level have been Trunks? Since Trunks Ki was much stronger than Frieza's. **BM** 23:10, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Trunks is a valid possiblity, it could also be an oversight on to part of the developers, a translation error, or somesuch.24.118.227.213 10:47, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Again- that's fan-theory. And it negates two facts. Trunks supresses his power (shows up on a scouter as a "5"), and Freeza/Cold don't. There is NO way that when the Z Senshi were sensing a power comparable to Freeza, with Freeza, and similar in feeling to Freeza, that they were overlooking Cold and sensing Trunks. Trunks didn't power up until he confronted Freeza, and his ki would feel nothing like Freeza's. In fact, when he goes SSJ, Gohan senses the ki surge and thinks it is Goku. Onikage725 10:04, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

This issue seems to contradict itself over and over again, but that is very common in dbz.24.118.227.213 22:44, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, the short of it is this- the manga states them as similar to each other, and the anime goes a step further and says Cold is the stronger of the two (which makes sense- didn't Freeza tell Goku that noone had ever been capable of making him feel physical pain except for his parents?). Add to this the fact that their threat was so short-lived (2 episodes in the anime and even briefer in the manga) that there really isn't much else to go into or draw from on this. Onikage725 15:29, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Also take into account that Frieza often claimed he was the strongest in the Universe, therefore showing his father must be weaker, otherwise he wouldn't claim it. We all know he obviously wasn't the strongest compared to Broly etc, but to his knowledge he was the strongest in the universe. What's more is that he claimed this before he became mecha Frieza, and mecha Frieza was even stronger than the original. **BM** 22:47, 12 October 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by BM-1988 (talk • contribs)
Once more, this is fan-theory. Toriyama had not yet invented anyone stronger than Freeza, for one thing. It also isn't uncommon for villains to overestimate themselves. Vegeta does it all the time, Cell did it a few times, Freeza did it against both Goku and Trunks. I'm pretty sure Vegeta even made similar claims while fighting the Z Senshi on Earth, despite being well aware of Freeza, Zarbon, Dodoria, the Ginyu, etc. All that aside, on Wikipedia we can only put verifiable information. In the anime series, Vegeta says that the ki with Freeza is bigger than Freeza's own. In the manga it is not stated either way which is stronger. Anything beyond those two facts is original research. Onikage725 20:09, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
Granted, but most of the time the bad guy is the strongest until a spare of the moment transformation e.g. Goku first goes super saiyan against Frieza, and Gohan goes super saiyan two against cell. However you are right, this is just fan theory and original research, and this argument could go on forever. Also like you said, the anime and manga do not always meet eye to eye due to translation errors and such. **BM** 22:46, 13 October 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by BM-1988 (talk • contribs)
This one isn't so much a translation error as it is brief filler. Basically in the manga we cut from everyone sensing the two ki's to everyone beginning to arrive at the landing site. In the anime, we briefly observe Vegeta and Yamcha flying to the site, and hear their thoughts. Yamcha is disturbed by Vegeta's improvement, while Vegeta is mad that Goku didn't finish the job with Freeza. And then he wonders about ki signature number 2, which he says is larger. Onikage725 01:58, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
It also makes me wonder if in the manga they mean power levels. Having similar Ki might not mean strengh, but feeling. E.g. the feeling of Ki difference between good and evil energies. Frieza and King Cold were both evil, and father and son, there Ki understandably may have felt similar. **BM** 20:21, 14 October 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by BM-1988 (talk • contribs)

The sad thing is, unless Toriyama comes along and makes offical statements about this and other issues, fan-theory and logic are all we'll ever have to go on. Unless that happens, such things as Cold vs. Frieza, the name of their race, etc. we will never really know.24.118.227.213 04:42, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Mecha Frieza was not at 100%. King Cold was stronger than his son's suppressed form. If Frieza powered up...

I have Mecha Frieza 2.5 % (as he was in the battle) at 4.5 million, 100% at 180 million. I have King Cold (in his second form) at 5 million. That make sense? User:Mr. Blonde 139 10:31, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

First, Mecha Frieza is STRONGER than he was on namek, as his cybernetic enhancements increased his power, this HAS been placed in canon. Second, no power levels of anyone has been given a true number value after Ginyu used his scouter on Goku, in fact the last use of a scouter was on trunks in his base form and it was surpressed; scouters are not used by the Z-fighters or anyone else since then because most can sense power levels.24.118.227.213 (talk) 11:21, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

You don't believe he was suppressed against Trunks, when Trunks was stated to be as strong as Goku on Namek? User:Mr. Blonde 139 10:26, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Come on, King Cold's weaker than both Freeza's final form and his cyborg final form. With all those cybernetic enhancements, Freeza would be stronger than his final form, but weaker than his 100% power final form. Cooler, for that matter, states that he is stronger than Freeza in the movie (could be bluffing), but that is irrelevant and shouldn't be argued about because Cooler was just getting ahead of himself. Cooler was basically equal to Freeza. Son Gohan (talk) 12:54, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Kuriza

Ive watched Dbz for a long time and have never heard of Kuriza can someone tell me what epesode or a rough estimate to when he came along in the animae or the manga, much appreciated, Prince Of All Saiyans 18:35, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Akira Toriyama went on to make something called Neko Majin, a sort of selection of one shot manga installments. One edition was called Neko Majin Z, a sort of parody of the dragonball universe. This is where Kuriza makes his appearance. If you search Kuriza or Neko Majin, it will give you more detail, but thats basically it. Personally I am not familiar with the series though, so please forgive any mistakes. **BM** 19:40, 7 November 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by BM-1988 (talk • contribs)

Cool dude I appreciate it.

Prince Of All Saiyans 13:20, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Frieza = Fictional Racists

Ok, I just wanted to say that, if the category of "Fictional Racists" was still available, that Frieza should be listed under it.

I mean, Frieza refers to saiyans as being inferior creatures, he also calls them "Monkeys" at several points (Goku even noted that Frieza was being a racist when he tried to call Goku a Monkey during the final fight when he said "Why must you resort to such names? It only proves how afraid and ignorant you really are!) among others.

If you can't add it in even IF the Fictional racists category is still in existance, i'll understand.

~~Weedle_McHairybug~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.245.115.214 (talk) 01:54, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree, Freeza was a bit racist to the Saiyans, he treated them like dirt and the Saiyans were basically slaves. Even King Vegeta couldn't stand up to him. Could be percieved as Freeza just hiding under the fact that one day, a Super Saiyan would rise up to him and defeat him once and for all. Raditz was a bit of racist too, calling Piccolo "green freak" or whatever. And Vegeta did call Dende a "Namekian brat". Didn't need the Namekian bit, did it? Could've just called him brat. Son Gohan (talk) 13:00, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Shallow...

There is absolutely no analysis of Freeza's character. It's a great pity. Freeza is a very interesting character (perhaps the only one that made DBZ worth watching) with more than just an evil side to him (there is a speech at a certain point that one of Freeza's soldiers talks about how kind Freeza was to them and how he gave them a job, something to live for, while they were a bunch of useless bums beforehand). Siúnrá (talk) 00:26, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Full Power 70%/ 50%/33%

I can't find the exact place where Freeza states that he is at 50% power (although I know I've heard it and will find it soon), but later on Goku says, before using his 20x kaio-ken "50% power... [gojuu pasento no powaa...] whether those words are a bluff or not, all I can do is stake everything on a 20x kaio-ken!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOpNFwKNu68

Edit: Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLBsVuxSf1E . "Fifty percent of my maximum, that's all that's required for this."

Later on in episode 098, just before Freeza reaches his maximum, he tells Goku that he is at 70% of his maximum possible power. Something like "The extent of my power now is only 70%". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlntLUgGFi4 (About 2:30). Also, he explicitly refers to his 100% state as full power, ("Furu powaa").

I'm not sure about the 33% power one, but before he powers up to fifty, he tells Goku that he was only using one percent of his total power!

PiccoloNamek (talk) 03:43, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Isn't the one percent thing a ub line? I thought he just said he was using a fraction (or maybe it was percentage) of his full power. Onikage725 (talk) 01:26, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

That may very well have been a dub-only line. The others are taken from the Japanese version, though.PiccoloNamek (talk) 10:48, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

I think it was after Goku escaped Freeza's energy ball that he trapped him in that he reveals that he was at 33%, but then states he will use 50% of his maximum power. However, I could be wrong, I haven't seen the clip for a long time. Son Gohan (talk) 13:09, 7 June 2008 (UTC)